Season 8 Episode 5: Medical Cannabis Falls Short and Dog Diabetes

The most convincing health claims are the ones that feel personal, and few topics are as personal as medical cannabis for mental health. We take on a huge Lancet meta-analysis that pulled together 54 trials and thousands of participants to ask a simple question: does medical cannabis actually help anxiety, depression, and PTSD more than placebo? The answer is uncomfortable, especially given how common “medical marijuana for mental health” has become, and we walk through what the evidence says, where the risks may be, and why this can lead to hard but necessary conversations between patients and doctors. 

Then we shift to pet science based on listener requests and break down diabetes in dogs in plain language. We cover what canine diabetes mellitus is, what causes it, which dog breeds may be higher risk, and the classic symptoms owners report like increased thirst, frequent urination, increased appetite, and weight loss. We also flag diabetic ketoacidosis as an emergency, explain how diagnosis works through blood and urine testing, and outline what treatment often looks like with insulin, diet, exercise, and routine vet checkups. 

If you learn something, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more science and pet lovers can find the show.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello, science enthusiasts. I'm Jason Zakowski.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And I'm Chris Zakowski.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

We're the pet parents of Bunsen Beaker, Bernoulli, and Bricks.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

The science animals on social media. If you love science, and you love pets, you've come to the right spot. So put on your safety glasses and hold on to your tail.

Project Hail Mary Movie Review

SPEAKER_00 0:29

This is the Science Podcast. Hi everybody, and welcome back to the Science Podcast. We hope you're happy and healthy out there. This is episode five of season eight. Chris, what did you think of Project Hail Mary?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Oh, it was amazing. We went to the early show. I bought early tickets just for the excitement of the show. And Jason didn't want any spoilers, and we were so thrilled to go. And amazingly, the seat in front of me was broken. And so I had an unobstructed view to the theater screen, which was amazing. And it was full of heart and hope and joy and sorrow. And it just was an amazing roller coaster ride. Amaze, amaze.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah. I thought it was an excellent movie. It was a very faithful adaptation of the book. Because when they take a book and turn it into a movie, it can go really bad. But I'm really glad it turned out well. Like you said, Chris, it has a lot of heart in it, but there's also a lot of good science, too. And that's what I appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

What I loved is that Ryan Gosling as Ken was beach, but in this movie, he's teach.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

His job is teach.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

His job is his job is teach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah. It's very cute. Very cute. I give it five thumbs down.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I love that. I also give it five thumbs down.

Cannabis Meta Analysis Findings

SPEAKER_00 2:00

That's right. So that's a reference to the movie if you haven't seen it. Go see it, everybody. Statement. Yeah. Go see it statement. All right, let's talk about what's on the show this week. In Science News, we have probably I'm not sure if it's controversial, but it's definitely gonna ruffle some feathers. We're just gonna be talking about a paper published in The Lancet about medical cannabis, and it's not all it's cracked up to be in this huge study, which for some people they may find that a little frustrating, or you may be on team not cannabis. I don't know. And in pet science, we're gonna be talking about diabetes in dogs. Now, this is not related to any study, Chris. We got asked by two separate people from social media, um, unrelated to each other, if we would talk about diabetes and dogs. And I didn't know much about it, so we did some research and that's what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

That sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Now, do you know any dogs with diabetes?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

No, but I'm going to be contributing some information when we get down to the prevalence in certain dog breeds, because I'll explain it when we get there, but that's something to look forward to in that section of the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

All right, let's get to the show. There's no time lake.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Science time.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

This week in Science News, we're going to break down a huge analysis, the largest to date, on medical cannabis and its effectiveness on mental health. Under former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who is now dating Katy Perry, if you can believe that.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

I can.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Okay, you can. He his government decriminalized marijuana. And I feel like in six months after that came out, there were marijuana stores everywhere selling cannabis.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Everywhere. On every street corner. Yeah. Um, it was bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah. But I like before that, obviously people were getting it, and it was obviously illegal, and it was obviously a criminal offense if the police wanted to charge you with it. So there was a demand, and then poof, all of these mom and pop cannabis stores popped up everywhere. Uh, and of course, one of the things that folks were saying was they were so glad because they use cannabis for their health. Or that's what they told the police. Why do you have this joint? Oh, it's for my health. I need it for the blah, blah, blah. Have you heard that before?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

You know, I have. And if you go on the internet, and it of course it's not sanctioned, but oh, this might help you type websites where they they talk and promote the use of medical marijuana for certain ailments.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Well, the study comes from the Lancet, and it's a meta-analysis. The 54 trials were identified for inclusion into this study on medical marijuana or cannabis. And the total number of participants were in the thousands, 2,477. So we're generally looking at a fairly large sample, and it's the largest to date, so say the authors. And the conclusions, if we can jump to the end of it, is they found medical cannabis does not effectively treat three mental health disorders anxiety, depression, and PTSD. They found that there was no medical difference between the cannabis and placebo in these trials, these 54 different trials. Because of course, scientists want to find different drugs that could help folks with different disorders, and it just didn't seem to pan out using this massive huge meta-analysis.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

That's a concern because the widespread use of medical marijuana or medical cannabis, despite its effectiveness, that's pretty common in North America. About 27% of people ages 16 to 65 report using it medically. And about 50% of those users use it for mental health symptoms. So it's a widespread use for something that the study is suggesting it's not effective for.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

We could get into the nitty-gritty of each of the studies they looked at, but the overall conclusion was there's not enough evidence to support its use for those conditions. In fact, there were concerns about routine use from all of these different studies that they may actually worsen mental health outcomes. So folks taking it for their mental health may actually make it worse. Definitely there's linkages to psychotic symptoms for those who have psychosis and are using, and then also folks can get addicted to it. That is a bit of a myth that you can't get addicted to pot or cannabis, but you can. And then if you were reliant on medical cannabis instead of looking for more other effective treatments, your condition may worsen. Uh, they also found very weak evidence for other conditions.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

There are some possible benefits found for cannabis use disorder, so dependency, autism, insomnia, and ticks or Tourette syndrome. But use in these conditions is rarely justified without proper medical or psychological support. And in autism, there was some symptom reduction observed. But because autism varies widely between individuals, the findings should be interpreted very cautiously.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

So if we can rule out a bit of those and some of the other mental health disorders of anxiety, depression, and PTSD, they did find evidence for support of some other conditions where cannabis may help. Epilepsy, it may reduce seizures or does reduce seizures. Multiple sclerosis, it helps reduce the spasticity. So that's like the involuntary motions, involuntary movements that folks with multiple sclerosis have, and some types of chronic pain. So in those conditions, this the meta-analysis seems to show they may have some legitimate medical uses. So they're not like anti-candis. Mental health is just not one of the well-supported areas in the studies done to date. The concerns, though, raised by the study is that doctors are increasingly prescribing it and there's limited regulation in how pure it is. I don't know if you get a prescription for medical marijuana if you can just go to your local distillery in Canada on the side of the street and get your cannabis there. So because of that, it's just very unclear if it's safe and effective.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah, it is a concern. And maybe there needs to be more oversight and caution to have a more standardized, to have a more standardized prescription or standard or grade of medical marijuana.

Placebo Effect And Patient Care

SPEAKER_00 9:19

It would just take one of these medical marijuana companies to fund a study and have it be double blind with a placebo and have a large enough sample size and make sure there you don't have biased people, even though it's funded by them. It's interesting that hasn't happened yet. There hasn't been a medical marijuana funded study. But up to now, the evidence seems to be not super effective for mental health disorders. We shouldn't take away the placebo effect. I'm just going to close with that. I love this podcast called the Skeptics Guide to the Universe. G U. The SGU. So the main, there's these three brothers, another guy and a lady. They are the hosts. They're all very accomplished people. And Dr. Steve Novella, he's the main guy of the podcast. He's a neurologist and he's big in the skeptics community. He went on another podcast with this guy named Dr. Mike. He's got glasses. I don't know if you've heard of Dr. Mike, Chris. Anyways, he went on Dr. Mike's podcast and they were talking about two things: one being chiropractory and the other being acupuncture. And Dr. Steve Novella is very anti both of those and extremely anti-acupuncture. Um, and he's talked about it before many times on the SGU about how weak the evidence is for acupuncture. And there was a big backlash. Normally, the SGU doesn't get a lot of hits on social media, but that video blew up of him talking to this guy. I do agree with Dr. Steve DeVella, the evidence for acupuncture is weak, but you can't rule out the placebo effect. So you can't rule out people who think it's helping them, and then they think it's helping them so much that it actually does. I think there's something to be said for that. So maybe that's what my my where I'm getting with this is maybe that's my point for medical marijuana, is they maybe need to look at the placebo effect and like maybe people who have PTSD really think it's helping. And it may be something that gets them through the day.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I'm not sure, but I think the overall goal should be ensuring that patients receive safe and effective treatments for all of their medical needs.

Diabetes In Dogs Basics

SPEAKER_00 11:40

If anything, this is gonna raise awareness with many of the doctors that prescribe it, and they'll have to have some hard conversations with folks who are looking for something alternative, and they could say, for your condition, there's not a lot of evidence it would help. So let's try to go down a different path. Anyways, that's science news for this week. This week in Pet Science, Chris, we're gonna talk about diabetes and dogs. We have a fairly large social media platforms uh on all of the different social media sites, and two separate people from two different social media sites, they actually DM'd us asking if we would do a post or talk about diabetes and dogs. Now, I'm not a vet, neither are you. So we're going no, we're going with the research that we gathered from reputable tech source sites and treatments that are beyond very standard, beyond like a lay person like me telling you this is what you should do for your dog. So I shouldn't think we should say that we're not vets, we are just talking about what the evidence is in and on very reputable pet sites.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yes, absolutely. And if any of the information that we're saying makes you think maybe I should get checked, my maybe I should check my dog out, definitely go to your local vet for more information.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, exactly. So diabetes mellitus is this condition that both humans and dogs have where we can't properly regulate blood sugar, um, which is glucose. If we go back to high school biology, glucose is the body's main energy source, and that is controlled by insulin. Insulin is a hormone made by the pancreas. In diabetic dogs and diabetic humans, either there's not enough insulin produced or the body isn't using the insulin properly. And the result of it is the same. You wind up with hyperglycina, aka high blood sugar. Cells don't get the energy that they need. There's too much sugar in your blood.

Causes Risks And Breed Genetics

SPEAKER_01 13:47

So a couple causes, the most common one is damage to the pancreas. So having that reduced insulin production, and that will can lead to chronic inflammation and age-related degeneration also is linked to the damage to the pancreas. The second is obesity. Excess body fat can cause insulin resistance, and the body does produce insulin, but it doesn't work effectively in the body. And some other influences are hormonal influences. Certain hormones counteract insulin, progesterone, especially in unspayed females, and a stress hormone called cortisol. And this could be why unspayed females are at higher risk of diabetes in dogs and medications. So some drugs can actually increase the risk. So steroids like prednisone, they can raise blood sugar and interfere with insulin and insulin production. The part that I wanted to talk about was breed and genetics. So some of the higher risk breeds include miniature schnauzers, poodles, dash hounds, and beagles. And Jason says dash hound like Daxund, but I'll say it, I'll say it both ways. But as you may or may not be aware, my stepdad Gord has a miniature schnauzer named Doc, and we just love him to pieces. He's such a good boy. But when Gord was in the hospital with his his medical issue, his medical concern, I brought Doc every day to the hospital. And what we would do is we would go for a little walk around the unit to build up his strength, to build up his mental mindset, all of that. And we had Doc with us, and a couple was ahead of us, and they stopped to talk to talk to us about Doc. And then they shared the story of their miniature schnauzer who got diabetes and unfortunately has passed away. But they mentioned that that breed has a pre predisposition to diabetes. And so I said, Wow, thank you for that information. And we talked to them for a minute about it, and then we were on our way. But that conversation really bothered Gord because he's like, Why would they say that? And I said, Well, you know what? Sometimes information is really important in case you see some things and you that are concerning, and maybe being early prevention is key for sure. And but that was a good thing, but then a bad thing because he was quite sad about it. Doc recently had blood work done, and his blood work looks great. So that's a bonus. Talking about those specific breeds, it does suggest a genetic component. And so that might be something to look at if you're noticing some of the common symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And just like humans, it is extremely rare for dogs to be born with diabetes. Just like humans, it is very rare for a baby to have diabetes within the first few days of life. Most people who get type 1 diabetes, so that's like juvenile onset diabetes, it's from their immune system attacking their pancreas. And it takes a bit for that to build up so their pancreas stops working or working at the effectiveness rate that it needs to. So you have kids who develop diabetes between the ages of four and 14. That's the most common age. And of course, there's outliers. You can get adults that get it later. That's called LATA. And there's type 2 diabetes, which develops when you're over 40, where the body becomes resistant to insulin. With dogs, again, congenital diabetes is extremely rare. So you get dogs starting to develop diabetes when they're uh adults, when you are middle aged to an older dog. So that's when the age range starts to become a risk. Of course, there's outliers. You can have little puppies that get diabetes, you can have very young dogs that get diabetes, but the most common age is the same age where you'd have type 2 diabetes in humans. I found that kind of interesting, and that's something I didn't know.

Symptoms Emergencies And Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 18:05

I think as we look at our as our dogs and are thinking about, hey, do you maybe have a change in behavior? What are some common symptoms or what are owners reporting? There are four big signs that can be considered classic signs. One of those is increased thirst, and the next is frequent urination, increased appetite, and weight loss despite eating more. So that's a bit of a oxymoron or a paradox. And some other signs are lethargy, having low energy, and cloudy eyes. So cataracts are very common and they will potentially have recurrent infections, so like urinary tract infections or skin infections, and just look at their coat. Is their coat in good condition? If it's not, that could be an additional sign. But there is an emergency sign out there, it's a life-threatening complication, it's diabetic keto ketoacidosis, DKA. And those symptoms include vomiting, weakness, dehydration, and rapid breathing, and that requires immediate veterinary care.

Treatment Prognosis And Vet Advice

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Just like humans, it's diagnosed with their blood and their urine. You'd have high glucose levels in the blood, and you'd have glucose in the urine. Um, I don't think we should go around tasting dog urine, but that was one of the tests back in the day for folks who had diabetes. They had sweet urine, which is gross, but that is something that we I've taught kids before. So yeah, yeah, I know. That's how they used to taste, they taste test it. And sadly, there was no cure way back when you just died from diabetes. So you should probably come, you should probably have regular vet checkups with your dog, especially if you're one of the breeds that are at risk. And they'll catch it, they'll catch it with their urine. Keep making sure you're up to date with your vet checkups. If your dog does have diabetes or diagnosed with diabetes, they're probably going to be put on insulin. That's the main treatment. So most dogs require daily insulin injections, usually twice a day, just like people. Um, and then the vet will train you to inject the insulin under their skin. And the whole idea is to keep their blood sugar within a safe range. There are other ways, such as diet and weight management, especially if it's an insulin-resistant type of diabetes, like the older folks in humans. You can make sure they have a high fiber diet with complex carbohydrates, and you have a gradual weight loss over time with lots and lots of exercise. Chris, I don't know any dog with diabetes, but I know we have a couple people we're close to in our community. Paula Moses comes to mind. She's talked lots about her. She's had dogs with diabetes in her life. What's the prognosis if your dog is diagnosed with diabetes?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

The good news, Jason, is that the prognosis looks great. With proper management, dogs can live happy, normal lives, and it requires a daily commitment from owners and those routine vet checkups that you were talking about. And with those treatments that you were talking about, like insulin therapy and diet and weight management, along with exercise and can and a commitment to monitoring, the dogs will stabilize well after an addict after an initial adjustment period.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

That's good news. So it looks like with proper vet treatments and regular checkups, diabetes doesn't have to be a scary thing. Though I'm sure it's scary when your dog is diagnosed or you see some of those symptoms that are very worrisome that could go downhill very quickly. I think the best advice we can give as podcasts. Hosts is if you're concerned about what your dog is how your dog is acting, if you're concerned about any health changes, get them to a vet as soon as possible because they've got the tests there to know.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

A hundred percent. And that's what I always say. Just you know your dog best, and if there is a change, trust your gut and get them checked out.

Patreon Thanks And Closing

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Alright, that's pet science for this week. That's it for this week's show. Thanks for coming back week after week to listen to the science podcast. And a shout out to all the top dogs. That's the top tier of our Patreon community, The Popack. You can sign up in our show notes. Alright, Chris, let's hear those names that are part of the top dogs.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Amelia Fetting, Ree Oda, Carol Hanal, Jennifer Challen, Linnea Janet, Karen Cronister, Vicki Oteiro, Christy Walker, Sarah Bram, Wendy, Diane, Mason and Luke, Helen Chin, Elizabeth Bourgeois, Marianne McNally, Katherine Jordan, Shelly Smith, Laura Stephenson, Tracy Leinbach, Anne Uchida, Heather Burbach, Kelly, Tracy Halberg, Ben Rather, Debbie Anderson, Sandy Brimer, Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde, Andrew Lynn, Brenda Clark, Brianne Haas, Haggy McKeel, Holly Birch, Kathy Zirker, Susan Wagner, and Liz Button.