The Science Pawdcast

Season 6 Episode 28: Quantum Computing, Cat Blood Types, and DNA Keepsake Jewelry

• Jason Zackowski • Season 6 • Episode 28

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What if quantum mechanics could revolutionize the way we compute? In this episode, we break down the seemingly "spooky" principles of quantum computing, exploring concepts like qubits, superposition, and entanglement. Kris and I make these complex ideas more approachable, showing how quantum computers can perform multiple calculations simultaneously and solve problems that stump classical computers. We also touch upon exciting applications like cryptography, aiming to demystify this cutting-edge technology for our listeners.

Switching gears, we enter the intriguing world of cat blood types and transfusions, inspired by Bunsen's recent medical journey. Using a fun analogy with quantum phenomena, we explain the critical importance of matching blood types in cats to prevent life-threatening reactions. Learn about the three primary blood types—A, B, and AB—within the AB blood group system, and understand why accurate blood typing and cross-matching are essential for successful transfusions, offering practical insights for pet owners and veterinarians.

Finally, we welcome Dave Latorra and Stephanie Ford from DNA Is Love, who share their heartfelt journey of blending science with sentiment through DNA keepsake jewelry. Discover how they preserve the DNA of loved ones and pets, creating lasting connections through personalized jewelry. Dave and Stephanie recount touching stories, from capturing a father's DNA in the ICU to preserving the DNA of beloved pets, highlighting the emotional significance and the innovative science behind these unique keepsakes. This episode is a beautiful exploration of the powerful intersections of science, emotion, and memory, designed to tug at your heartstrings.

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Speaker 2:

Hello science enthusiasts. My name is Jason Zukoski. I'm a high school chemistry teacher and a science communicator, but I'm also the dog dad of Bunsen and Beaker, the science dogs on social media. If you love science and you love pets, you've come to the right place. Put on your lab coat, put on your safety glasses and hold on to your tail. This is the Science Podcast. Hi everybody, and welcome back to the Science Podcast. We hope you're happy and healthy out there.

Speaker 2:

This is episode 28 of season six. Whew, whirlwind week. Uh, first full week of school. We only had four days. The previous week five days. Um, chris and I are just exhausted. Teaching takes a lot out of you. It's a super rewarding career, um, but from the moment you wake up on a teaching day till you go to bed, you're thinking about school, your kids and how to better your plan. So this may be the day the podcast just is out. That's a Friday. I don't think we can do Thursdays, at least not for a while. Thanks for waiting.

Speaker 2:

And what's on the show this week? In science news, chris and I are going to look at quantum computers because they're spooky and not well understood, and we'll try to make some sense of them all because there's a new breakthrough by Microsoft and in pet science. We're going to be talking about cat blood, cat blood types, because of a really interesting post I did on social media about dog blood. Our guests on Ask an Expert are two guests actually from a company called DNA is Love, that's Dave LaTorra and Stephanie Ford, and the conversation's really powerful. I'll give you a disclaimer it makes me all kinds of emotional. So just you know, that's a really good one, but guard your heart going in, you might have a little bit of tears.

Speaker 2:

All right, let's do some computer jokes. Why was the IT guy in the hospital? Well, he touched the firewall, and a good one mixes dogs and computers. Why do robot dogs make such bad guard dogs, such bad guard dogs? Well, their bark is worse than their bite B-Y-T-E. Okay, on with the show, because there's no time like Science Time. This week in Science News, chris and I are going to be talking about some spooky advances in computers. I guess it's not so spooky, it's just quantum computers. Have you heard about these quantum computers?

Speaker 3:

before, chris, you know what I hadn't prior to looking at this information that we are speaking about today, but I thought it was interesting. Like quantum bits and qubits, I thought it would be funny if it was Qbert.

Speaker 2:

Oh Qbert the video game.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I thought that was a missed opportunity.

Speaker 2:

I was terrible at Qbert, very good at Pac-Man, bad at Qbert.

Speaker 3:

I'm not good at either. I just like to watch.

Speaker 2:

When I hear the word Qubit, it reminds me of Noah's Ark. Wasn't it built by certain amounts of Qubits?

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah. Yeah, that makes sense, but that's not spelt the same way at all.

Speaker 2:

No Now if you've never heard of quantum computers before or you have and you've tuned it out because it uses the word quantum. Quantum computers are a new type of computing that leverage the principles of quantum mechanics. Now, unlike classical computers that use bits, zeros and ones to perform calculations, quantum computers use quantum bits or qubits, which can exist in multiple states simultaneously due to a phenomenon called superposition and entanglement phenomenon called superposition and entanglement.

Speaker 3:

So, jason, you may recall, one day I was sitting in my vehicle and we were on the phone and you were talking to me about quantum mechanics because we were talking about Schrodinger and we were talking about the thought experiment and the cat is not alive nor dead, and it was boggling. You said you really have to expand your mind for that kind of conversation. So were quantum computers similar when you're talking about computing and what they can do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So Schrodinger's cat analogy was trying to explain how when you look at something and you test it, it's very different. Like things can be both a particle and a wave, and until you test it you don't know if they're a particle and a wave. So until you test it they're both at the same time. In normal computers a bit can be either a zero or one, and then you have all of those zeros and ones and that turns into computer code. But quantum bits, it can be both zero and one at the same time, or a combination of two. The more qubits you have, the more combinations you can have all at the same time.

Speaker 3:

So simultaneously.

Speaker 2:

It's very hard to wrap your head around. It almost sounds like I'm making stuff up. But if you have two qubits they can represent four combinations of, at the same time of zero, zero, zero, one, one, zero, one one. Instead of classical computers, you can't have that all simultaneously. It's either zero, zero, one instead of classical computers, you can't have that all simultaneously. It's either zero, zero, zero, one, one, zero or one one. So it's just with two qubits a quantum computer is twice as fast.

Speaker 3:

And I believe that allows quantum computers to perform many calculations at once, which gives them the potential to solve complex problems much faster than classical computers.

Speaker 2:

And there's something else called quantum entanglement. So that's when these qubits become all entangled and connected such that the state of one qubit can influence another, even if they're really far apart, relatively far apart when we're talking about a small computer chip. This allows a computer to be even more efficient in information processing.

Speaker 3:

Okay, and so they are also able to solve more complex problems, right?

Speaker 2:

Now you'll probably roll your eyes and I'm not a big fan of, like NFTs and crypto coins and all that kind of stuff, but they're really good for solving that. But if we bring that closer to home for something, that's maybe more important to folks that are listening. Not that if you got a bunch of Bitcoin, good job for you, but there are really complicated chemical reactions specifically around how proteins fold, and these quantum computers can just figure out all those combinations way faster.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so are quantum computers better than the classical ones? Are they, or how could they be?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're faster, they're more efficient and they can solve problems quicker. The problem is, you can't go out and buy yourself a quantum computer right now.

Speaker 3:

And which companies or organizations are involved with the quantum computers?

Speaker 2:

The story we're going to be talking about comes from researchers from Microsoft and a company called Quantum, and what this company found was that these quantum computers could correct their errors when they were making calculations.

Speaker 3:

Okay, because the quantum computers do use qubits to perform calculations, but the qubits are prone to errors due to quantum phenomena happening simultaneously at the same time.

Speaker 2:

Try to explain this to a kid what's one plus one? They're going to say two. And if you say what's one and or zero, zero and or zero one and, or one zero plus and, or one zero, one, zero, one, zero, zero, zero, all at the same time simultaneously, it's not really math that's logical to our brains.

Speaker 3:

I'm glad other people are on it.

Speaker 2:

So here's where the story comes in. Sometimes these calculations do go funky because of that quantum phenomenon, but when the qubits are entangled, the computers were able to. These researchers from Microsoft and quantum entangled 12 logical qubits and achieved an error rate that was 20 times lower than the same calculation using faulty qubits. So 20 times lower is great, especially when you're doing calculations.

Speaker 3:

So that milestone shows that quantum error correction is essential for creating reliable quantum computers and that would be and allow for a major step towards achieving universal quantum computing. So right now it's in early stages. So, moving forward using these quantum computers. Now Google was also involved. Researchers from Google reported advancements in quantum error correction, and they improved how long a qubit can store information.

Speaker 2:

A long knock against some of the quantum computing was these errors. The potential is for it to be faster, the potential is for it to be more efficient, but it doesn't matter how fast and efficient you are at doing a math problem if it's wrong at the end.

Speaker 3:

These quantum computers could be revolutionary in fields such as chemistry and helping us address critical issues like climate change and food production.

Speaker 2:

We've come a long way with computers. I was telling my class today Chris, do you remember the first computer your family had?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 1985. It was a Macintosh and we played the Oracle on it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my parents scraped together enough money to get an Apple as well, with disks, floppy disks.

Speaker 3:

Well, mine was like the Macintosh computer oh okay, macintosh computer, oh okay, macintosh. Like, yeah, it was probably three thousand four thousand dollars.

Speaker 2:

I know it was a lot of money for my parents. I remember they, they saved and saved for that. It was an apple 2e, I think, with floppy discs and my brother and I played the heck out of some of the games for that machine. There was Moon Patrol and, of course, the Oregon Trail.

Speaker 3:

Ooh, I think we had the Oregon Trail too, but we had like hard discs. They weren't. They were called floppy discs but they weren't floppy like the ones that you would have had.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

They were like encased in plastic. Yeah, and then like you put it in and it would suck it in. Oh, it was such a good sound.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we got our first computer, I think, when I was in grade seven or eight. I became obsessed with technology from that point forward, so it is difficult to wrap your head around the possibilities of quantum computers, and I just thought we haven't talked about it ever on the science podcast, and it might be interesting for some folks out there to know.

Speaker 3:

That's right and I love talking to you about it because you are so knowledgeable and I can just sit back and have you make connections, just like when we were talking about quantum mechanics and Schrodinger and you were talking about the thought experiment. I was just like whoa.

Speaker 2:

I love this story and I'll end with an analogy. If you're a little confused about quantum phenomenon, here's an example Ginger and Bernoulli are gone and until you go check on them, you don't know if Bernoulli is mauling ginger or they're getting along. So until you check on them, you don't know if Bernoulli is mauling ginger or they're getting along. So until you check on them, ginger is both mauled and not mauled by Bernoulli. That's superposition and quantum phenomena.

Speaker 3:

Okay, but why do all of these things have cats? Ginger is a cat.

Speaker 2:

Because people have cats in their house. It's something they can relate to, and cats are spooky.

Speaker 3:

Cats are not spooky.

Speaker 2:

That's science news for this week. This week in pet science, chris and I are going to break down a little bit about cat blood. Now I think where I got interested in this is everybody who's been following us knows that Bunsen had pretty major surgery on August 16th. It was touch and go, very emotional for us. He pulled through but we were told before that he might need a blood transfusion and that was another reason why on the 15th they wanted to wait until the 16th. They had wanted to wait one more day to do all the surgery because Dr Keyes wanted to be absolutely sure they had Bunsen's like the right blood for him in case he needed a blood transfusion. And that got me thinking about dog blood and I did a post about dog blood that everybody seemed to like on social media. I learned a lot and somebody actually commented what about cat blood? And I was like what about cat blood?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, what about cat blood? But we were there at the, at the clinic, and we were in the waiting room and I saw a poster. I saw a poster with a QR code and I think that kind of got the conversation started as well, where I pulled it up and it's you can sign up your dog to donate blood. And I thought, wow, that's something that we could do to give back to the dog or the pet community. And then I asked you about it in the car. I said have you thought about cat, dog blood and anything? And then we did some research looking into the sheer amount, which was shocking, the sheer amount of blood types that dogs can have. So this is really interesting with cat blood because why not?

Speaker 2:

And luckily Ginger's been very healthy. We haven't had to worry about her having a blood transfusion. But literally cats do need blood transfusions from time to time and as we started to do research, cat blood is maybe more similar to human blood. And then there's less types than dog blood. There's 13 different dog blood types. How many cat blood types are there, chris?

Speaker 3:

They have three primary blood types and they're classified into what is known as the AB blood group system, and so there's type A, type B and type AB. Type A, interestingly, is the most common blood type in cats, especially in the United States and North America, with approximately almost 100% 95% to 99% of our domestic short-haired cats having type A blood. Of our domestic short-haired cats having type A blood, and certain breeds such as Siamese, tend to predominantly have type A blood, but far less common is type B. Okay, so type B is typically found in certain purebred cats, like the British Shorthair, the Devon Rex and the Cornish Rex, and it's more prevalent in Europe, australia and other parts of the world than in North America.

Speaker 2:

So is type AB crazy rare.

Speaker 3:

Type AB is the rarest blood type. Ab is a universal recipient type, which means that cats with that type can receive blood from both type A and type B cats. However, ab cats are very uncommon, which makes up such a All right. But, having said that, understanding your cat's blood type is essential. So knowing if your cat is type A, type B or type AB, especially in the cases of emergencies which require blood transfusions Because, yes, cats can receive blood transfusion, but it's much more complex than simply finding a donor, like in human medicine. There are some critical issues that need to be addressed before having your cat be a recipient of a blood transfusion.

Speaker 2:

And this is where cats and dogs differ. When I did the research on dog blood, at least for one blood transfusion, a dog with one type of blood can potentially get another dog's type blood and there won't be any kind of like serious life-threatening reaction. But with cats, incompatible blood types usually leads to a dangerous, life-threatening immune reaction. So it's different than dogs. You can get away with yeah, you can get away with one, in dogs maybe two. That's not the right type but type, and then the dog starts to build up an immune response to the wrong blood type. With cats, no, it's got to be exact.

Speaker 3:

Because cats actually have natural antibodies against other blood types from birth. So, unlike humans, they don't need to have prior exposure to incompatible blood to experience that reaction. Exposure to incompatible blood to experience that reaction. So if a cat with type B blood receives type A blood or vice versa, it can lead to a life-threatening immune reaction.

Speaker 2:

And one of the. It's awful, but unlike in humans, where maybe you get a bad blood transfusion, you're type A and you get type B and it might take hours for you to feel terrible, a cat body has a reaction in minutes, within minutes, and sadly it leads to often fatal outcomes.

Speaker 3:

So here's how it works. Before any transfusion takes place, it's essential to determine the blood type of both the donor and the recipient, and then there's even more things to do. There's something called cross-matching, so even within the same blood type, there can be differences. A cross-match is done to test for compatibility between the donor and the recipient's blood, which will hopefully ensure a successful transfusion and healthy young cats with the same blood type as the recipient are typically chosen as donors, and they collect the blood, store it and administer it when it is needed.

Speaker 2:

Cats can also receive cat plasma. Plasma is useful when a cat needs clotting factors, but doesn't necessarily require red blood cells. Interesting too, as cats age, their blood changes and older cats are much more prone to certain conditions like anemia, kidney disease and cancer, which can affect blood production and quality.

Speaker 3:

So it's important to continue to do routine blood tests. So it's important to keep exactly, and routine blood tests can become crucial in detecting and treating those issues early on.

Speaker 2:

I know we had Bunsen's blood tested and they suggest that if your pet's getting older and they're in there for a checkup, it doesn't cost that much more money to do a quick blood test and look for things like you know, look for any kind of issues that might be coming up that the blood would show.

Speaker 3:

Earlier in the podcast we talked about quantum computers and how advances in that computing technology would benefit us. There are advances in vet medicine as well, and with those advances we can expect even more refined techniques in feline blood typing and transfusions. So current research is exploring the ways to create synthetic blood or develop better ways to store blood for emergency use. Because as the high demand for high quality vet care grows, especially for our beloved cats because we do love our cats understanding the intricacies of cat blood will continue to play a crucial role in saving their lives.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I don't think feline blood gets as much attention as other aspects of cat health. I know Duncan's cat had some urinary problems it seems to be common in male cats and Ginger had some allergic reactions. We had to take her in. But it's good to know a little bit more about such an important part of the biology of your pet. I never thought about dog blood until it came up when Bunsen was about to go under surgery. Never even crossed my mind, and it never crossed my mind about cat blood either. I know dogs have blood. I know cats have blood. And now it's getting me thinking. Yeah, and now it's getting me thinking about all the other types of animals and the blood that they have, like horses and pigs. I guess pet science has made us all think about things and that's the goal of our show. All right, thanks, chris. That's Pet Science for this week.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, Jason.

Speaker 2:

Hello everybody, here's some ways you can keep the Science Podcast free. Number one in our show notes sign up to be a member of our Paw Pack Plus community. It's an amazing community of folks who love pets and folks who love science. We have tons of bonus Bunsen and Beaker content there and we have live streams every Sunday with our community. It's tons of fun. Also, think about checking out our merch store. We've got the Bunsen stuffy, the Beaker stuffy and now the ginger stuffy. That's right, Ginger, the science cat, has a little replica. It's adorable. It's so soft, with the giant fluffy tail, safety glasses and a lab coat. And number three if you're listening to the podcast on any place that rates podcasts, give us a great rating and tell your family and friends to listen too. Okay, on with the show. Back to the interviews. It's time for Ask an Expert on the Science Podcast, and I have the co-owners of DNA is Love, Dave LaTorra and Stephanie Ford, today. How are you both doing?

Speaker 4:

Doing well. Thank you Great.

Speaker 5:

Thanks for having us on, Jason.

Speaker 2:

This is going to be an interesting discussion and I'm thrilled that you reached out to be on the show. Just, I always ask guests where in the world they are. Like, where are you calling into the show from?

Speaker 4:

I am calling from Tualatin, oregon, just outside of Portland.

Speaker 5:

Okay nice and just a little further down the road, I'm in Newburgh Oregon, as well.

Speaker 2:

I love that I love that Pacific Northwesters yeah, yeah, I love that area of the United States. It's the whole west coast of the United States and Canada Very pretty place to be.

Speaker 4:

It is, it is.

Speaker 2:

Did both of you live there your whole life, or did you ping pong around places?

Speaker 4:

I grew up here so. I do feel like a true Oregonian, but I had moved around quite a bit. I spent five years in Beijing, China.

Speaker 2:

No way I spent five years in.

Speaker 4:

Beijing, China. No way I did.

Speaker 2:

Whoa.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's a really cool experience. Yeah, but Nashville, albuquerque, denver, salt Lake and then decided to come back home.

Speaker 3:

Cool.

Speaker 5:

And for me. I started out on the East Coast. I grew up in New Jersey and did a lot of schooling out East We'll touch on that probably in a couple of minutes and I've just been moving my way West since then A couple of decades in Colorado. That was a beautiful time and then got going in another field here and then California and then up to Oregon. So I'm about as far North and West as I can get.

Speaker 2:

You were literally a modern day character from the Oregon trail. I hope you hadn't didn't have to afford any rivers there, dave.

Speaker 5:

No, no flights.

Speaker 2:

They're good A lot of flights, you didn't get dysentery on the way either.

Speaker 4:

Love that game.

Speaker 2:

It's a good one. So a question for you, Dave. I was wondering if you could touch on your science training, and then we'll talk to Stephanie about her role.

Speaker 5:

Perfect? Yeah, for sure. I have quite a deep education in the biological sciences. I, like I said, grew up in New Jersey. I went to junior college and got an associate's degree in math science. Then I went on to Clemson University and got a bachelor's in biochemistry yeah, very good program they had there. Stayed on for a master's in microbiology. That took about three years research work and things then got out, worked for a few years and then made my way out to Colorado and got in a graduate degree there and got a PhD in biology, slash zoology, from Colorado State. So at one point my family they were on me they said I made it to the 31st grade.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, that was an achievement.

Speaker 5:

It's been well worth it and I've got that for 20 years. It's been a real boon to my career and just science. I love it. The deeper you go, the more there is to learn. It's been an amazing journey. And then I've also worked in the corporate field. Like before becoming an entrepreneur here, I worked for quite a few larger multinational companies that do mostly like molecular diagnostics, so I'm really more a molecular person, like I'm a DNA guy from way back and that was what my graduate was, Very micro versus hey, let's learn about elephants.

Speaker 5:

Right, yeah, different areas there and, like I said, I've got a corporate career and then we'll talk about how we founded this, where we're going with this, but it's been really a great journey to have some dreams come together and come true, forming our own company here.

Speaker 2:

Cool Quick follow-up question, dave, were you a science kid as a young person?

Speaker 5:

Not so much. I was born a math person, I think Some people see colors and have art and things. I do a lot of math. Those numbers come to me. And just science. Once I got into it I got a passion for it and couldn't put it down and moved around within the field Like I started out in junior college. I got a chemistry class and I just I aced it. I loved it, but I said career-wise I don't want to be a chemist necessarily, so let's try biochemistry. And then that opened up the whole life sciences realm and it's been a great journey. The thing with this field is it's really in its youth. Dna has only been known for maybe 80 years, 100 years at that point. So there's just so much yet to be uncovered and discovered. It's fascinating and so many applications. That's what's exciting.

Speaker 2:

Excuse me, Isn't that the truth? Now, Dave, you mentioned and I'll let Stephanie maybe talk Stephanie has like a background in hospice. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 4:

Absolutely yeah. I went to school for education and then I found my passion just really lied in helping others and so I dove into caregiving the last number of years about 15 years I had a mother who had polio as a child, so I knew the ins and outs of what caregiving took. And so when I was in China, I worked in the orphanage and just loved it. And so when I came back to Portland, that's what I focused on was the hospice caregiving side of the field and just have really loved getting to know the most incredible people and their stories, which is why when Dave and I started, dna is Love. That's what came together for me was the connection of DNA, the connection of humanity, the stories, all of it together.

Speaker 2:

I'll try to give a follow up without getting too emotional. So I'll try to give a follow-up without getting too emotional. My mom passed away a couple of years ago from a brain infection, and her time in hospice was very eye-opening for the amount of care that the people provide. And I don't have the stuff to do that kind of job and I just have such respect for the people that do so. It's so interesting you come from that background.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, no, thank you, and really truly there are so many good people in this field and but truly, the best part for me is just the incredible people I've met over the years and have gotten the opportunity, the honor to take care of, and so that's where my passion truly lies is just in people relationship, connecting others through the generations.

Speaker 2:

I love it. So we got a little bit of background about you both. Thank you for sharing the big question that people have probably been hoping that we'd get to soon, or maybe they fast forwarded don't do that, people, but anyways, what is DNA? Is love? What is that in a nutshell? Or a pawprint?

Speaker 5:

company, we merge a few things together. Our biggest focus is putting DNA from people or pets into products that we have and basically jewelry. But we also have a couple other things like a picture frame and some glass vials and things. So it's that part. It's the physical connection We'd love to. We take a sample from someone and then they can hold on to that. It's a living reminder and something they can cherish over the years and generations and keep going. So that's part one of it. Stephanie also mentioned the stories part. That's another service we're looking to provide for people, just in terms of the connection, and that's the thing I bring the science to this. But Stephanie brought the meaning and the connection behind it and tied it all together. I've had the idea for putting DNA in jewelry for a couple of decades, but it was just the act of really the reason behind it that kind of made the difference in getting us going with this.

Speaker 2:

If you want to add anything, Stephanie, go ahead. If not, we'll.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I definitely want to add to that. And then just that Dave did have this idea for so many years and I just think he's got a really cool story on how it came to be and able to preserve his parents' DNA back when they were alive, living, and so I just find that to be so beautiful that he's had this dream forever. And so when we came together with this idea of building a company, with my experience in the caregiving hospice world, I just thought what a really neat way to bring people together and to remember those that we have lost and I was seeing that so much in my world of just these really truly incredible people. And then we have to say goodbye and it's just how can we remember, how can we hold on to the essence of this person, how can we share with the world about this person? And so that's what our hope was, is creating this company was just to bring together the heart and the science into one.

Speaker 2:

I think a question people are probably wanting us to answer and you perhaps are better to answer that, dave is what's the process to do this? Like you said, you put DNA, as in jewelry. What's the process like?

Speaker 5:

Yeah for sure. So I am building on the experience I've had over a couple decades of research hands-on in the lab as well as just being in many different labs. We try to make it as straightforward and easy for people as possible. So we've done that. Basically, we would send you as you order. You can orderings online. We have a menu of products to shop from and then on there you can also choose options. We do personalize everything, so that includes custom engraving and things.

Speaker 5:

But another thing we didn't even touch on but we also have the possibility to mix together different samples. So if you had two dogs or something that you loved, we could get a sample from each of them, mix them together into one product or a person or different people. That's the thing is, we apply to so many different areas. That's what's fascinating. But back to the process. We do make it easy. We we just offer, we send in the mail a quick and easy sample collection kit.

Speaker 5:

It's just a simple cheek swab for about a minute. Then the swab gets just broken off and the tube gets sent and mailed back to us and then from there in the lab I will take the sample and do a dna extraction that I use the magnetic particle separation and you can get into that a little more if you're interested in a few more details on it, but it leaves very pure, pristine DNA at the end of the process and then from there I actually go a step beyond and confirm every sample that we got a swab from the DNA actually extracted and the process worked, basically confirming every DNA that comes out, just in case a sample collection didn't go well or we didn't get it to work. So we want to confirm that. And once that's done, then we have fillable jewelry that we've sourced and we'll go ahead, open it up, fill it with the DNA, seal it up and send that, along with the certificate of authentication, to you as your final product oh, man, I have.

Speaker 2:

Can I ask some sciencey questions, of course, okay, um, the first one that's just right at the top of my head is how, what? Like you mentioned magnets, could you? Go into more detail about that yeah, for sure.

Speaker 5:

I'm using commercially available kits to do this. That way the process is really standardized and the vendors that I get these kits from have done the qc, the quality control on the kits to make sure it all works. But basically they're chemically treated little magnetic beads. They're really microscopic beads. They're black in color. The process is once the sample comes in, there's cheek cells. So basically we're talking about human or pet cells. Any mammal will get a positive result of this, so it could be a cat, a dog, a person.

Speaker 5:

We lyse, which means break open the cells, and then that releases DNA, but also protein, lipids, all the other debris from the cell. These magnetic particles will go ahead and bind and attract and literally bind onto the DNA, both the chemistry of it, the charge of the beads, and also their chemically treated beads. So the DNA will be attached onto the beads and also their chemically treated beads. So the DNA will be attached onto the beads. Then I have the tubes in a rack and then I have a magnetic rack and when the tubes go into the rack it holds the magnetic particles up really tight up against the side wall of the tube and then the rest of the debris, the protein.

Speaker 5:

The stuff you don't want can be washed away several washes. So we really clean up the DNA really well. And then, at the final step in the process, there's another chemical, another reagent that you add, put the sample in the heat block and then at that point the DNA is released off of the beads into the solution. So the final time you hold the beads up against the magnets, just the beads. The DNA is free in the liquid. That's the DNA that will take, confirm that there's a sample there and then use that for the products.

Speaker 2:

And the next question I have what does it look like? Like you said, you fill the jewelry. Does it look like a fluid? Does it look like spaghetti?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, that's such a common. Everybody wants to know that. Jason, that's probably your top question and the answer is it's clear, it's a clear liquid and it's just a small amount like 20, 50, 100 microliters. A microliter is a thousandth of a liter milliliter, so it's a very small amount and it's clear. So that is why, with the process we have it so dialed in and we confirm every sample worked. We then fill it into the product and then really we'd like people to just keep it sealed, keep it closed and things. If the DNA would dry down in the jewelry over time, that's okay. The DNA is still dried down in there on the surface and it could be. It's still viable. It could be rehydrated at any point. Stories DNA has been found in ancient remains, so it's, oh yeah, most stable macromolecule by far yeah, I just did a.

Speaker 2:

I just did a story about woolly mammoth DNA. Right, should we bring the woolly mammoth back? Yes, wasn't any early humans, though? Keeping in keepsake jewelry? Maybe that would have made it easier. What a cool process, and I've perused your website and maybe I can throw this question to Stephanie. Is like what is the product? Like all types of jewelry, just for a visual for people listening to this audio, the audio medium.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, if you go to our menu page, our shop page, you'll see a variety of things. We've got hearts, we have infinity pendants, we have bracelets, and then we do have picture frames and vials if you just want a simple way to hold on to the DNA of somebody you love. So they're all there and there are several options. Like Dave said, once you go in, you decide which product you want, what size of chain, and then we do the certificate of authenticity as well, where we can upload a picture and that will tell you the amount of DNA Dave was able to extract.

Speaker 2:

Okay, awesome.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That is so. I'm just my mind is spinning here. It brings us to the next question is what gave you the idea to do this? This is I have heard and I play this video for my students of Al Gordanza in Switzerland, where you can send in the cremated remains of a loved one and they turn it into a diamond. But this is different. What gave you the idea to start this?

Speaker 5:

Sure, I'll start with that. I don't know it came from. Actually funny, it came from the practical thing, like back when I was in my research for my graduate work. I was working in a lab in Denver doing the research and my project was on looking at basically DNA markers that would identify people and try to differentiate them from different animal species. So I worked with some wildlife biologists also. I had my hypothesis. I was ready to do some testing. I have DNA primers ordered and markers coming.

Speaker 5:

There's that age-old question and also these were like for relationship testing. So are these things stably inherited through families and things? So, as a scientist, you're looking for samples. So where do you go? You go to your family, right? You go to where you can for samples. So where do you go? You go to your family, right, you go to where you can get samples.

Speaker 5:

So at a family reunion we had at Thanksgiving 15, 20 years ago, my mom used to be a nurse and at that point we got samples from everybody. At that point it was a blood, little blood draw up. That was before we started doing the cheek swabbing and things have gotten better and streamlined over time. So I used my own family samples to do some of my research and that got me on the train of thinking how do we hang on to, how do we preserve? I've hung on to my family samples my siblings and my parents since then and it's great to have.

Speaker 5:

It is that feeling of you've got some of them with you all the time, so that kind of led to it. But then that was a thing that kind of was just there for me, an idea, thought in the background, and I think after Stephanie and I met we talked about our backgrounds and really she brought the piece of the connection like it's people's pets, their family, keep that going through time. Remember it doesn't have to be somebody that's passed away, it's somebody that's across the country or somebody just feeling really close to someone. This is a way to do it and so it gave it the purpose and the meaning I think.

Speaker 2:

Anything else you wanted to add Stephanie. Go ahead.

Speaker 4:

Absolutely so I will add to that.

Speaker 4:

And when we did start this up, I did see the connection and so much in the science and in the heart of everything.

Speaker 4:

And it was a neat experience because as we were working on this, I had an experience in my own life where my father very unexpectedly went into ICU and had to be in the helicopter to get him from one hospital to another and it was very touch and go for a while and so I immediately went out to where he was with a swab and was able to get his DNA there in the ICU unit and there was something really neat about having that and I didn't quite understand until it actually happened.

Speaker 4:

And then I was able to watch Dave take that through his whole process and then watch it go through the PCR and be able to say, oh my goodness, this is the blueprint of my father, of my father, and to be able to have that and hold on to it. Fortunately he's still with us and I am so grateful for that, but I just am able to hold it. I have him in a living heart pendant which I wear when I go on hikes, when I go birdwatching, when I get outdoors, and I just always touch it and think, oh hi, Dad, I'm glad you're here so that's my experience.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that got me right in the heart.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, and as Jason is following up on what you said earlier, with the family member, everybody's got somebody and then at some point in your life, if you haven't yet, you're going to have a cherished pet, like so many people. Pets are family right and pets have a shorter lifespan, so that's like really hard.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, then they'll outlive you. No, I'm just teasing.

Speaker 4:

I know, I did that Sorry.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry. They do have a shorter lifespan, but we have turtles and they'll outlive us all.

Speaker 4:

Oh, and they do. They go on forever.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, but I guess you can't cheek swab them, they're a reptilian.

Speaker 5:

We could. We just have to get some primers. So a little bit of a project, but I wouldn't. We could do it, jason.

Speaker 2:

We'll do it. I apologize. It's a bit of dark humor I sometimes make on social media that dogs are these wonderful creatures and you get them for, if you're very lucky, 12 to 15 years. And then here's this turtle just doing a heck of a lot of nothing that lives like 80 to 100 years and really is the only thing that's cool that it does when it eats lettuce so it's conserving energy for the long term, doing a whole lot of nothing no, but they're pretty cute, I think, when they eat lettuce, it's pretty cool yeah yes, sorry, go ahead, dave, I cut you off, no you're doing great okay

Speaker 2:

so back on track. I have this visceral. I have this visceral like image in my head of like the heart pendant, your heart pendant, story right, that your dad is with you wherever you go. Yes, and I would have that for our lost dog, callan in a second, who was the dog we had before Bunsen, because she, she was my heart dog. Owners. Talk about you have one dog in your life, that's your heart dog. I would wear that every day.

Speaker 4:

No, truly, and I am with you on that, there's nothing harder. I do have a cat, I am a cat person, and my cat, yeti, is just such a huge part of my life and has been with me 14 years now, and so he was the lucky recipient of getting swabbed multiple times as we were testing out the process.

Speaker 2:

He was the test cat.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, he was the test cat and he was a trooper. He hung in there, but really neat to be able to do the whole process with him. And then I have my dear brother who's down the road from me. He's got six dogs, some who have passed, but we were able to capture his dog George's DNA in order to test that process. And when I was so, I gave him a picture frame with George's DNA in it and it just was such a beautiful gift that I was able to give him. And when he opened it he just cried and he just thought I wish I would have had this for my other pets and I thought, yeah, me too, and you just don't think about it in the moment, but it happens. And so I just really love this idea of holding on to them while they're still living and then, once they do pass on, that you have this kind of living reminder of them.

Speaker 2:

That's really beautiful.

Speaker 4:

I'm getting over-clemped.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't normally happen when I'm interviewing science guests. I'm talking about spirit or dark matter.

Speaker 4:

No when you talk about your dog. I mean, I was getting teary because I know what you mean by that heart pet, the one that you want to hold on to forever, and the day will come that you have to say goodbye and that there is nothing harder, and so I just love this idea of having a tangible reminder and then just always having them close. And, as we know, dna lasts forever and is so stable, so you'll always have that little blueprint of them, their little life force. So that's what I love about it.

Speaker 5:

Yes, jason, you've passed the test. That's Stephanie's skill with this. We know she's getting through to people when they cry and we've had that happen quite a few times not in a good way, like in an emotional way and it is the connection. She's also amazing with life stories and we're going to be branching into that part as well, but it is bringing that together for people. That that's what kind of connects. There's like a thread that goes through everything we're talking about and that's it there. One more thing on the pets too. We've also really we can do other animals, like we've actually done horse DNA. That works as well. Any right now. Anything that's a mammal we can certainly test, and something else we could do. We just I just have to. Right now. We've started out with the common pets for people, but I know some people have some different choices in that area yeah, the aves, like people, have very close attachment to birds and they're very long lived some of them yes, so you, like your brother, had a very visceral reaction.

Speaker 2:

I was wondering, like, what has the the reception of these items been like? Have you heard back from folk beyond your immediate family?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's been a really beautiful part of the process, at least for me, is just to hear how this does touch people, how it does make a difference in their lives. I know we were able to do a picture frame for a mom who had two children and she said whenever I walk by, whenever I look at that, there's just such a peace of mind knowing that, no matter what happens, no matter, yeah, that they're there and that I have this living part of them with me. And we've had a few where we've had to get the swabs out quickly to say we're not sure how much longer this person has.

Speaker 4:

I would really like to have this part of them with me as well. And so those are the stories. That's the reason behind what we do truly is to give people that peace of mind, that comfort of knowing I can hold on to this forever and just keep it close, and that was our hope in starting. Dna is Love is that we could truly connect people through the power of science, but also through the power of shared stories, because I just truly believe everyone has such a unique and beautiful story and when we open that up and when we listen to each other and we just take the time that we learn this about the world, and it's just a really cool thing to see that we learn this about the world and it's just a really cool thing to see.

Speaker 2:

I'd imagine you get the odd email or post that you're just like.

Speaker 4:

Oh, my God, I don't know if I'm in the right frame of mind to read this Right Exactly, and there are. There's some really moving stories, and I do think people want to talk about these loved ones in their lives, their dogs, their pets. My brother is a very quiet person, but when he starts talking about his dogs, you see the tenderness, you see the love, you see the heart there, and so that's a beautiful thing to witness of just being able to gift this to someone in remembrance of someone they love.

Speaker 2:

I think, as we wrap up this section, my my last question to both of you is what have you liked best about the combination of the science and the keepsake? What are some things come to mind? I'm not doing a great job of phrasing this.

Speaker 4:

No, you're doing great.

Speaker 2:

What comes to mind that is your favorite from this combination.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, I can start. I'd say it's a very powerful combination and maybe we didn't I quite appreciate, I think, at the beginning, or maybe we did. We've had many sort of business discussions about this and it can apply to so many people in so many life situations. That's the thing where everybody, from young people to grandparents, everybody that has cats or dogs to just family members, and it's also about connecting with people. It's a long, lasting connection. It's something to have and hold on to and I know, having held on to it for such a long time, how powerful it is and to me it's like a story that's entwined together. It's like these threads that kind of go through and it's the connection of DNA really is the thing, the blueprint that connects us from generation to generation. We inherit so much from our parents, physically and all the rest, so many traits, so many good ways together, and that's been really special to see that all come together.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I would echo that for sure.

Speaker 4:

What I find so fascinating is we do carry the DNA of our ancestors for generations and generations, and so that legacy just continues on and continues on. And that's what I love about that of just thinking, oh, my goodness, I'm carrying forward the legacy of my mother and I hope that my children will carry that on, and so both through the science and through the heart of it. And I just think we are connected to animals, we're connected to the planet, we're connected to so many things, and I don't even think we realize it. And so I love that we are 99.9% the same, and I just think that's a really beautiful fact about DNA we're the same, but there's that 0.01% variation, 0.1% variation, that we just are just enough different to be unique. And that's what I want to grow with. Dna is love is that you are unique, you are powerful, you are good, and so that's my hope in doing this with Dave that we can just recognize the beauty that we have here on the earth and just be grateful for it.

Speaker 2:

So appreciate you taking time to talk about this really cool melding of science and keepsakes. But I do have some standard questions I ask all our guests about, and one is for our guests to share a pet story from their life. I was wondering if you could do that, either both of you separately, doesn't matter.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I will start and I think I will just go to my cat, yeti, who is my absolute life, and when we talk about pets, when we talk about the love that's there, I just this is such a constant in my life. He is there with me every day. He is just present. He's funny, he's such a huge part of our family and my kids often joke he's the favorite child and I'm like you're not far off. But you know, after 14 years, I just I understand the depth of what pets mean to us truly and that they are one of the biggest parts of our heart. And as we see them get older, as we see them decline and slow down, it just gets you. And so I just appreciate the time I do have, appreciate the moments, take lots and lots of photos, but just grateful for the joy and the laughter and all the emotions he brings into my life. He is everything.

Speaker 2:

What does Yeti look like?

Speaker 4:

Yeti is a rag doll.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and so he looks like Yeti. He literally looks like Yeti. So when I take him to the vet they're always like this is the perfect name and I said, oh yes, I will be posting about him soon. And yeah, just so grateful for him in my life.

Speaker 2:

Over to you, Dave.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, so also had family. I've had dogs and family cat, especially in Colorado for a long time with my two daughters growing up. That was a nice, but I'm going to go back to. We had a pet parakeet in New Jersey called Oscar. Oscar was really fun and just learned about biology and really I still love to watch birds and they're amazing in a way. So I'm going to just choose Oscar, just to be a little a little different today.

Speaker 2:

Birds are unique, they're pretty cool, they're tiny. They're pretty cool they are. They're tiny, they made it, they're the dinosaurs who made? It.

Speaker 4:

They are Fun to learn about them.

Speaker 2:

They also can fly. That's a pretty amazing skill that not a lot of animals have.

Speaker 4:

Absolutely.

Speaker 5:

We would keep Oscar in a cage so he didn't fly away from the neighborhood, but really fun and just different pets through the years too. I'd love to be out in nature and just see snakes, rabbits, owls, birds, so many things. That's one good thing about where we live in Oregon. Here there is so much nature out there. It's amazing to see.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for sharing. As we get to the end, I challenge our guests to share a super fact. It's something that you know, that when you tell people, it blows them away a bit. So that's the challenge.

Speaker 5:

All right, dave, start us off. Get this within the ballpark is how many genes are there in the human genome? I think most people for how much function there is, how much biology there is going on with people.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't have a good guess. I have no idea, yeah.

Speaker 5:

You would think it's so many more, but there's really only about 30,000 genes altogether. There's so much more going on in the DNA level. So much of it is just structural and non-coding or messaging, transcribing. Some of it's silenced or not over time, but there's not really that many Genes are the thing that codes for the protein. So there's just a small percentage of your human genome is actually what you'd call functional or genes. People talk about your genes or genetics. So much of it's silent and in the background. So that number surprises most people. Back when they did the human genome study and published that, oh, a decade or two ago, the guess was way higher on how many genes there were. People were saying over 100,000. And finally, when they got down to it, the number is much closer to 30,000.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say 1,000, so I would have been way under.

Speaker 4:

All right, am I up?

Speaker 2:

You're up, Stephanie.

Speaker 4:

I know there's so much about DNA that fascinates me. Honestly, my background is not that, but learning through Dave and then just researching what it all entails, I think what blows my mind is just truly how connected we are. We share DNA with bananas, with dogs, cats, pigs, all sorts of things, and so what I find interesting is that we have this uniqueness but we are also so connected, and so that's been the fun thing for me to learn about, of just how intricate DNA is and how much lies in it and how important it is, and so that's my fascination by all of it is that we just share it with every living thing on the planet.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that makes sense because I've met some people who are definitely more like a banana, but I think it's something like 40% of that banana.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, 40% of shared DNA, or something like that, and I thought, wow, that makes sense to me.

Speaker 2:

The people I'm thinking about, it's more like 52%.

Speaker 1:

That's a great super fact.

Speaker 4:

Give or take, I love it.

Speaker 2:

So we'll have a link to the website in our show notes. Dna is love. We'll make sure that's a hyperlink for everybody to click on the checkout Are either of you on social media or is DNA is love on social media for people to follow?

Speaker 5:

We are on social media, jason. Yeah, totally. We're on Instagram X, tiktok. We have an account, so we are there. Even YouTube, we're not quite. We have some marketing help, but we're. We don't post as often as we'd love to, but we're on there.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's a full. It's a second full-time job for me to do what I do on social media.

Speaker 5:

It is, it's a lot of work.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we'll put some of your socials in our show notes as well. We're at the end of our chat. I want to thank you both so much for being part of the Science Podcast. This is a very moving interview. I might have to put a disclaimer before Don't be wearing heavy mascara before you listen to this. Oh, but it was a wonderful chat and, stephanie and Dave, thank you so much for giving up your time to chat with us.

Speaker 4:

Thank you so much, Jason.

Speaker 5:

Thanks, jason, we appreciate it.

Speaker 6:

Okay, it is time for story time with me, Adam. If you don't know what story time is when we talk about stories that have happened within the past one or two weeks. Dad, do you have a story?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'll share. I think Chris might bring in some of it too. So hot off the presses today we had Bernoulli's level one test at Waggles and he did so great. There's only a few things he has to work on and the rest he got very goods on his report card. But I love that they give constructive feedback and some things that Bernoulli could get better at, things that I could get better at as the handler when I'm working with him.

Speaker 2:

His down stay was his hardest and it was because more of how I was acting instead of how Bernoulli was listening. And then he had to learn a new game with Chris for the last test and after he went through it one time, boy did he do so good at it. The second and third time he did it without any errors, actually the second and third time, which was amazing. So I don't know what kind of dog Bernoulli is going to be. He has that kind of goofy, dopey, vacant expression and you're like what is there anything going on up there besides you being happy and cute? But then when he's put to the test, he's actually pretty intelligent and like he did level one at ease as easily as Bunsen and Beaker did. So there's that and that's my story.

Speaker 6:

My story is about. We don't really talk about Doc much, but he's a dog at my grandpa's house, the farm and he. We all live pretty close together so I've talked about this before so I won't talk about it again. But Doc is the little brown dog that you see in photos sometimes Gray, little gray dog, not brown. Anyway, doc is the little gray dog that you see in photos sometimes and he adopts different personalities depending on which animals he's with, which is super weird.

Speaker 6:

So doc, when he's in the house, is like a cat. He hangs out with the, he hangs out with the cats and he lays down with the cat. He lays down with this one cat, he lays down with all the cats. He has this little dog bed that papa has on the cat. He lays down with this one cat, he lays down with all the cats. He has this little dog bed that Papa has on the ground and he lays down in that all the time. And two of the cats are most definitely with him all the time that would be Larry and Mouse, and they both lay with him. Sometimes Willow lays with him. There's four cats in that house, but he acts like the cats too. He jumps up on you. You and he's a small dog, so like it's okay that he jumps up on you, but like he acts like a cat. But when you go outside he acts like a chicken and he goes into the chicken coop with them and just hangs out with them.

Speaker 2:

He hangs out with, doesn't he? He plays with the chickens.

Speaker 6:

It's so weird when we have the door because we have free run chickens. When we have the door open for the coop, he goes in there and he hangs out with them. We don't know what he does in there, but papa has to close the gate, otherwise he thinks he's lost doc, when he's actually just in the chicken coop. That's my story. Is doc up at the farm? Mom, do you have a story?

Speaker 3:

my story is just that it's been a super busy week and we've been working really hard at just keeping the lid on everything. There's been so many shenanigans, like with the dogs, and just Beaker is our steady girl and Bernoulli is. I know Jason talked about completing level one, but I've really enjoyed taking him there doing drop off and pick up again because I just get to hear such positive feedback about how he's doing and I've learned a new thing. So I'm not sure that we've shared with you that Bernoulli has been up in the middle of the night like three o'clock, four o'clock, five o'clock. It's been a bit of a. It's like having a toddler again or a baby again where you're not getting any sleep. So Jason and I are walking around like zombies.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a couple days ago I felt like a zombie, but two days ago it was awful.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So when I was picking up Bernoulli the other day, I asked, I said hey, do you have any suggestions? Because we're pretty sure his bladder is empty, we're sure his intestinal tract is empty, but he's just waking up. And so one of the suggestions was having two crates, which we already did. I had set up two crates because I thought Beaker would just love to sleep next to Bernoulli. That was not the case, it could be.

Speaker 2:

Bernoulli germs.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. But so we had the two crates already set up and I actually was going to take one down, but interestingly enough we moved one crate into our bedroom and the suggestion was to put him in his normal crate by the front door and then, if he wakes up, move him into our bedroom, into the second crate, because we don't want to necessarily reward him for crying out, but then we also need to get some sleep. Jason didn't do that the first night. He's no, bernoulli is just going in the crate in our room. So then we in our room we have Beaker, we have Ginger and we have Bernoulli in our room. It's crazy, bunsen, he's too big and he likes to leave. So he just I said I'm sorry you got to go, dude, and Bernoulli actually slept through the night.

Speaker 3:

But what I've learned is to change my voice, that if Bernoulli is whining in the crate, I just say enough, and you know what he settles, because if there's any whining, like at waggles, he doesn't do it there because he knows that there's consequences. So when Jason and I were walking tonight I was like maybe I've been too not too friendly with Bernoulli, but maybe I didn't have as firm of boundaries or I don't know how else to say it Just just more of a firm hand with him, not definitely positive reinforcement and all that stuff, but I just was positive with him. Not definitely positive reinforcement and all that stuff, but I just was positive with him all the time. And then I think that's why he was biting me and running after me because I he thought I was like oh, I just love all of that because I was positive with him all the time. But no, I've learned a new word enough. And then, if it's really bad, guess what I get to say.

Speaker 3:

No thank you, I know, cut it out. That's the next level. That's the whole next level that I haven't had to use with Bernoulli yet, but that's coming Maybe. But he's actually a new and improved dog and we got sleep, it was glorious, and that's my story. Don't do that. Do you want to tell a story?

Speaker 6:

You might know this special guest, but every time she goes on she's no less special than the last time Special guest come here. What is your story?

Speaker 1:

Hello, my story is about the ducks on the farm. My story is about the ducks on the farm. So in the past few days I've been not doing anything with my life other than going to the one class at school. But when I come home I'm sick and tired of watching YouTube. So then I go and hang out with the ducks outside and they've been so lovely lately.

Speaker 1:

And it was really funny because the other night Adam and I were, we went for a little walk and then afterwards we visited with them and we refilled their little pool with new water and then I found out that they really like the fresh grass that's outside of their pen, because their pen is just mud and so like they don't really eat any of the nice fresh grass that's outside of their pen because their pen is just mud and so like they don't really eat any of the nice fresh grass. So then I like pick up a handful and they're really scared of people, so like when I put my hand into the little pen and I put the grass in the water, like they're scared for a second. But then they're like so happy and they start quacking and it's so cute and I love them so much and yeah, like even in the past two days, they've gotten more used to me. They're not as scared of me when I put the grass in the pen, so I think that's progress. But yeah, that's my story.

Speaker 2:

The suspicious ducks are suspicious, that's what I call them.

Speaker 1:

They're very suspicious Always.

Speaker 6:

Okay, that is it for story time. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast episode. Thank you for listening to the end to my section. Yeah, I hope to see you on the next podcast episode. Bye-bye.

Speaker 2:

That's it for this week's show. Thanks for coming back week after week to listen to the Science Podcast. We would really love to grow the listenership of our show, so make sure you tell friends and family about the science podcast, share the episode with them and check out our show notes to support us as being part of the Paw Pack. There's a link there and a perk is you get your name shouted out at the end of the show.

Speaker 3:

Chris, take it away Bianca Hyde, mary Ryder, tracy Domingue, susan Wagner, andrew Lin, helen Chin, tracy Halberg, amy See, jennifer Smathers, laura Stephenson, holly Burge, brenda Clark, anne Uchida, peggy McKeel, terry Adam, debbie Anderson, sandy Brimer, tracy Leinbaugh, marianne McNally, fun Lisa, shelly Smith, julie Smith, diane Allen, brianne Haas, linda Sherry, carol McDonald, catherine Jordan, courtney Proven, donna Craig, wendy, diane Mason and Luke Liz Button, kathy Zerker and Ben Rathart.

Speaker 2:

For science, empathy and cuteness.