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The Science Pawdcast
The Science Pawdcast breaks down the latest science happening in the human world AND the pet world.
Each episode will also bring you a guest to enthral you with their area of knowledge.
You'll learn, be captivated, and laugh along with host Jason Zackowski.
Pets and Science, it's the pawfect mix.
You'll also get episodes of PetChat which are the live shows from social audio.
PetChat is a live community gathering updates about the animals in our life, but also the animals in the wonderful community that supports us!
Heart and Hope.
Science and Shenanigans.
The Science Pawdcast
Season 5 Episode 22: From Ocean Hues to Mars Views with Dr. Debarati Das
Welcome aboard to an exciting journey as we unearth the astounding shifts in ocean hues, and their far-reaching impacts on marine ecosystems. Witness firsthand how our planet's lifeblood undergoes dramatic transformations, particularly in tropical regions near the equator, as a result of climate change. With revelations from an enlightening study conducted by MIT and the National Oceanography Center, you'll gain a new perspective on the world beneath the waves.
Discover the extraordinary impacts pets can have on children's socio-emotional development. Listen in as we delve into a comprehensive study that explores the developmental differences between children raised with dogs and those without.
Fasten your seatbelts as we blast off from Earth and head towards the Red Planet, Mars, with our special guest, the talented Dr. Dr. Debarati Das from NASA. This isn't your typical 9 to 5 job; Dr. Das takes us on her remarkable journey from studying the craggy terrains of the Himalayas to analyzing data from the Curiosity Rover on Mars. It's not just about collecting samples or taking photos; we're seeking answers to life's most profound questions - Is there life on Mars? And if so, what form does it take?
And now for a change of pace. And of course, meet the real stars of the show, our own furry friends, Bunsen and Beaker. From their misadventures to their keen sense of the weather, their antics will keep you entertained and, in the process, you'll learn a thing or two about the unique bond between humans and their four-legged companions.
Dr. Debarati Das' Links:
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Hello science enthusiasts. My name is Jason Zekowski. I'm a high school chemistry teacher and a science communicator, but I'm also the dog dad of Bunsen and Beaker, the science dogs on social media. If you love science and you love pets, you've come to the right place. Put on your lab coat, put on your safety glasses and hold onto your tail. This is the Science Podcast. Hello everybody, welcome back to the Science Podcast. We hope you're happy and healthy out there.
Speaker 2:The second week of our summer holidays is rapidly coming to a close, but Chris and I have been working our butts off for the last like 10 days on text from Bunsen Volume 2, and the jokes are done and then it's up to me to get it all into the right order and then we'll be recording the audiobook in early August. So it's very exciting. We worked really hard and it's hilarious. Bunsen's not really a summer guy, so maybe we'll talk about that in the family section. But Beaker has started dog diving. She's at the baby stages right now, but it was so rewarding to take her. And again, I don't want to take away too much from the family section because I'm sure we're going to mention that Science News and Pet Science keeps marching on. So let's get on with what's happening on the show. This week In Science News we're going to look at a study from MIT and the National Oceanography Center that found that the oceans of the world are changing color. In Pet Science, we're going to look at a really in-depth study that took a look at kids that had pets, especially dogs, when they were young and other kids that didn't have pets or dogs when they were young, and the researchers used a rather rigorous way to determine how the kids' development was going. It's called the Battelle Developmental Inventory and the study really stuck out. Our guest and ask an expert is Dr DeBarty Doss, and she works for NASA on the rover team, so we're going to talk to her about what is going on with the rover on Mars. Okay, the bad joke I opened up a Mars bar once. I discovered that Martians love gin. Okay, that one's actually not bad.
Speaker 2:On with the show, because there's no time like Science Time. This week in Science News we are going to take a look at a study that found that the ocean's color is changing. One of the comments that we get all the time is when we take Bunsen and Beaker or just like we ourselves and we're paddle boarding or kayaking in the Rocky Mountains in Alberta there are mountain lakes that I just adore being on, being surrounded by the mountains. The water is so crisp and cool and clean and clear and it's an aquamarine color and I'm used to it my entire life. I know it's pretty, I look at it and I'm like wow, that's nice. But for people that maybe aren't from the mountains or haven't been to one of those glacial lakes or mountain lakes, it can be quite a shock to see that color being kind of like a bluey green color instead of like the normal color of a lake. And now this study that we're talking about is about the oceans. But because of the it's called rock flower, the grinding of ice high up in the mountains kind of like pulverizes rocks and those rock, those rock minerals, get down into the water and of course they change the color a little bit. That's not something that happens in a normal lake. Depending on what's in the water, the color of the water can change and I'm using this starting story as kind of the jumping point for the study.
Speaker 2:The conclusion from the researchers at MIT and the National Oceanography Center, plus NASA, has found that there have been significant changes in the ocean color in the last 20 years. The study comes from nature, a rather large, prestigious journal, and the. The overall conclusion is that the color has shifted because of climate change, not because of natural variability, meaning that over the course of years, naturally the ocean will change from one color to the other. This changing ocean color is kind of shocking because it's been detected in more than 50% of the world's oceans and most of earth is water. Most of earth is ocean. That's a larger area than the total land area on earth. So the area of the ocean that oceans that has changed color is more than every single place that you could stand on earth with your two feet. The colors that have changed depend on your location. Tropical ocean regions near the equator they've become greener over time. This is a indication that the ecosystem in that tropical water has changed, so the stuff living there is different. It's changed less so in the Arctic, so most of the change is occurring in tropical regions. Now what the study doesn't get to is how those marine ecosystems are changing, and how they're changing is affecting the color.
Speaker 2:The conclusion is that from 20 years ago to today the ocean is a different color. You might be wondering like how? How do we tell that the ocean is a different color? Well, 20 years ago we still had satellites, right, we had satellites up in space that could take pretty decent photos of the ocean. And we've got even better satellites now that take even better photos. We have planes that have flown over tropical locations that have taken photos, and guess what? We've got the same planes now Drones maybe today are taking photos. The ability to take a picture 20 years ago is not something that is vastly different than today. I mean, 20 years ago I don't think there were iPhones and there weren't any drones, at least not civilian drones but the ability to take giant photos and and record those colors is definitely a thing.
Speaker 2:The findings of the study are more evidence that humans are impacting the earth. The things that live in earth have a color, and when those things that live in earth change or go away, so does change or go away the color. One of the things you might be saying is like okay, so the ocean's changing color, otherwise, that a big deal. Well, in the past, researchers have been really focused on chlorophyll or specific species that are susceptible to changes in color, or endangered species. Looking at entire color shifts may be faster and clearer.
Speaker 2:To determine climate change driven changes. One of the big culprits for the change could be plankton communities. Remember, in the ocean, plankton is the thing that everything depends on. So perhaps there's more plankton, less plankton, a different color plankton. But determining what's going on with plankton also is super important, because most plankton is photosynthetic and it's huge in the ability of the ocean to absorb carbon. So, in closing, it's not like I get to tropical locations very often In fact I would not be able to notice a difference but it is kind of shocking that the earth's oceans, especially in tropical locations, are changing color.
Speaker 2:That's science news for this week. This week in pet science we have a very heartwarming study. The study looked at kids and their socio-emotional development and compared it to kids who had dogs growing up and kids who didn't have dogs growing up. The sample study had 120 kids aged three to five years old, so younger, and they were grouped from either homes or public schools there's one private school and they balanced the group 60 in each based on dog ownership 60 of the kids had dogs in their family and 60 didn't. Data was collected and then kind of put through the lens of this thing called the Battelle developmental inventory and it addresses a whole bunch of factors in a child's developmental progress. It assesses things like motor skills, communication skills, adaptive behavior, your cognition. You have to be a trained professional to administer it and you have to watch the kid, you have to give them activities and of course, there's reports from parents or teachers. So this isn't like a self-survey, this isn't like my kid can put the right block in the right hole. No, the BDI is used in educational and clinical settings to identify developmental delays or monitor growth or plan interventions if a kid is falling behind.
Speaker 2:To get a little bit more into the BDI here, just a few things that could be assessed Like can the child name common objects or body parts? Communication skills can the child fall simple instructions. So the researcher or the administrator of the BDI would literally ask the kids like touch your head, touch your nose and then increase it in difficulty. There are personal social skills like can the child take turns during play? So you'd need that, probably report from a teacher or from a caregiver, not necessarily from the parent, who could be biased. There's adaptive behavior in the BDI, like can a child independently feed themselves using utensils? Okay, I did not do well at that as a kid. So I'm told by my parents, my dad. Cognitive skills, so naming things like shapes and colors, or puzzles and patterns, these are all just like a tiny fraction of the BDI.
Speaker 2:Now here's the conclusion in its entirety. The study found that contact with dogs significantly influenced the socialization of both the young boys and the young girls, and the dog group achieved higher scores in all domains. It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close. The kids who had dogs did so much better at every single sub domain or the average communication skills, personal social skills, adaptive behavior, cognitive skills. The results of this indicate that when a kid is little, early childhood contact with dogs is associated with more advanced social development, and this is consistent with previous studies that looked at similar findings.
Speaker 2:A big piece that's left out and that was mentioned in the study and it's something that I kind of I thought as I was reading this is that 60 kids have dogs. 60 kids don't have dogs. What's one thing that maybe would separate that out? Is it the dog, or is the dog just there and there's other things happening in that family? Here are some things that the scientists want to look at and further research, socioeconomic variables. So that's one thing that's always in the back of my head. It is not cheap to have a dog and the more money a family has generally the better a kid and the faster a kid develops in the BDI. And we see that in school, the schools with the low socioeconomic status kids they do worse on standardized tests than the richy, rich kids.
Speaker 2:If you have a dog, chances are there's somebody in the household that is home or are going to be home more often, so there's probably more parent kid contact. That's just my speculation, because if you have a dog they need to be fed, they need to be taken out, they need to be walked. So all of those things means a parent, a adult, a caregiver, a somebody will be home. So in the families without dogs maybe there's less parents at home, maybe they're working longer hours, maybe they're with a caregiver and of course that may slow social development. And the last thing and it may not be the dog, it may be dog owners generally on other studies are more empathetic and caring people. Now I'm not saying if you don't have a dog you're not a nice person, but I am saying that on average, people who have a dog score a little bit higher on things like empathy and responsibility than people who don't have a dog, and of course, that may be a factor in the social development of these little kids. So, in conclusion, the dogs seem to help, but more data needs to be taken in to see if it is the dogs.
Speaker 2:I would love to think that it's the dog. What do you think? Let us know. On Good Pods, you can leave a comment. That's Pet Science for this week. Hey everybody, before we get to the interview section, here's a couple of ways you can help the Science Podcast out. Number one if you're on any place that rates podcasts, give us a great rating. Tell your friends and share it with people who love science and pets, like teachers. Number two think about signing up as a member of the Paw Pack. It allows you to connect with people who love our show and it's a way to keep the show free. Number three check out our merch store. We have the Bunsen Stuffie 2.0, there's still some beaker stuffies left that they're adorable as well Warm, cuddly clothes and adorable drinkware. The link is in the show notes. Now on to the interview. It's time for Ask an Expert on the Science Podcast, and I have Dr DeBarty Doss with me today. How's it going today, doc?
Speaker 3:Pretty good hi. Thanks for having me today.
Speaker 2:I am so excited to talk to you. I was actually bragging up my conversation with you to my students today. Oh my God, where are you calling into the show from? Where are you in the world?
Speaker 3:Currently, I am in Santa Fe, new Mexico, which is in the US out of Mexico, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now lived there a while. Have you moved around for education work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I less than six months ago was in Montreal in Canada.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:I was doing my PhD there. I finished my PhD and I got a job at Los Alamos National Laboratory, which is in New Mexico, Los Alamos, and I moved to Santa Fe to work at Los Alamos.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:It's a wonderful, wonderful city. It's desert, different from Montreal.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say probably winters are a little different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, much more sunlight, so that I'm happy about that.
Speaker 2:Less poutine.
Speaker 3:Less poutine, yes, yes, critical.
Speaker 2:That's. I introduced you as a doctor and you mentioned you just got your doctorate. What's your training in science?
Speaker 3:Right, so my PhD was on Martian Geochemistry. Sounds very specific, what, yeah? So I looked at water and mobile elements in salty minerals in Gale Crater on Mars for my PhD.
Speaker 2:Okay, so when you were little, DeBarti, were you fascinated by space, other planets, the solar system, Like were you big into science as a kid?
Speaker 3:Thank you for asking this question because often people tell me their origin stories and a lot of my friends are just like you know. We dreamed about space since we were eight years old and that really didn't happen for me. Because I was this, you know, below average ADHD kid who couldn't pay attention in class. I was always at the back of the class doodling in my notebook. My teachers complained either I talked too much or talked too little, and my parents was just overall concerned. My dad was a scientist. He's retired now and I think I had very polarizing answers. When people ask me what you want, what do you want to be when you grow up? So I think my answer is where I want to be a scientist because that's my dad, or I want to sell flowers at the side of the street because I like flowers. So I didn't really have a grasp of what my career would be like, but I knew that I really liked art and so, yeah, I was.
Speaker 3:I think as I went ahead in high school, like as I went up the grades, I got a little bit more interested in science, but I didn't really understand why I needed to be good at school.
Speaker 3:So when I went to college I just kind of went with physics, chemistry and math and my mom told me I don't think you should take math because you're not good at it, you should take geology, because some neighbor's kid was good at geology. But it worked really well because that was my first step into understanding about planets, about our planet, about geology, about the processes. I got to be outside, got to be curious about you know, why is the sky blue? And there are other cool facts that have real palpable implications on our lives. I think that was like a very first step into getting into science and linking art and humans to science. But then I really did not picture myself as a space scientist. Every time I saw a space related event it felt like well, you know, that's really awesome. I can never picture myself being that cool. But yeah, I think the way I jumped into it was I got an opportunity to do an internship on meteorites in Japan and it was completely paid for.
Speaker 3:So I started my journey by just studying geology. Then I kind of focused my work for my masters on Himalayan geology and I think the last semester of my first master's degree program I got the opportunity to go to Japan. And then I was really enamored by space science and realizing that wow, I'm actually dealing with stuff that's not even from this planet was super exciting. And I got my second master's in Japan and then I think a professor there helped me get a position at McGill University. He just asked me what do you want to do next? And I just kind of knew that I wanted to work on space science, and that's how I transitioned to it to get my PhD in Mars science. I didn't really know anything about it, but I found myself learning something new every day and it was extremely inspiring.
Speaker 2:That is such a cool origin story.
Speaker 3:I know it's not as exciting as everyone else's.
Speaker 2:No, it's cool, Like, instead of like dreaming of being the Spider-Man, you kind of got a little bit along the way that led up to this, where you are right now.
Speaker 3:A little bit. Yeah, I think it was also this crossroad, because I wouldn't even have gotten into science had I gotten a full scholarship into an art school. So I think right after high school I gave exams for getting into art school and my dad had told me that well, if you get a full scholarship, you can go. And this super prestigious art school only admitted the top 100 students and my rank was 104. So I think that determined that I'm gonna go into science.
Speaker 2:Missed it by that much.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, I guess it's not a bad thing. I'm pretty happy with what I'm doing right now.
Speaker 2:So that makes my next question and kind of the focus of your science right now so exciting. Like you've nibbled at the corners of what you're working on. But I'll just ask it You're working on the Mars rovers or Rover right now, is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, let's stop the press. Which Rover are you working on?
Speaker 3:Okay, so I work on data from the Curiosity Rover.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm so glad you're excited about this. I mean, I am too.
Speaker 2:So okay, let's break it down. What for people that maybe aren't super nerdy like me and just love all things space? What is the Curiosity Rover?
Speaker 3:So Curiosity Rover is a collection of scientific instruments on a Rover, on a vehicle that's moving around, and it has, I think, a whole bunch of scientific instruments that are used to characterize rocks, chemistry, environment.
Speaker 3:Of Gale Crater right now the Rover isn't Gale Crater right now and I specifically work with the data from the laser instrument on the Rover, which is kind of like the head of the Rover.
Speaker 3:So the instrument is, the instrument suite is called ChemCAM and the instrument that I get, I analyze data from is called LIBS or Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy, and every instrument has a whole team working on it and I did some of the analysis of this data as a grad student. I had some wonderful mentors who I currently work with at the Los Alamos National Labs. I am co-mentored by Dr Patrick Asda, who has taught me pretty much everything about the Rover how to analyze the data, what it means, what we can do next with it, how to compare this with what we have on Earth, and I also have the opportunity to work with our excellent team lead, dr Nina Lanza, who is the current principal investigator of the instrument. So I feel very much like I'm still a baby scientist, getting to know the whole team, a small part of the team analyzing a small part of past water activity on Gale Crater.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so the data comes from the exploration of this device in Gale Crater? Yes, and what are some of the big picture things that your data? You're part of this amazing team. What are some of the big picture things you're trying to answer from this data? Right?
Speaker 3:I think one of the big key questions that, overall, the Marsh Rovers aim to answer is that is there any life on Mars? And that question is not very easy to answer. So we attempt to answer a lot of peripheral questions Like what are the? Do we have things that are necessary for life? Was there water on Mars and where has the water gone? Where has it traveled to? Are there any pockets on Mars that are still habitable? Were they habitable in the past? What is the extent of habitability?
Speaker 3:I think those are some broad questions and I think some more also some more questions that are interesting but not directly related to life kind of peripheral questions are what happened in the environment and what do the rocks tell us? Rocks are pretty good. They're really good snapshots of the environment that they have experienced. So that's the approach I mean. These questions are pretty much linked with each other. What was the environment? Was it good for life? So right now the rover is heading towards a unit that's pretty salty. It has a lot of salts and that's really exciting because salts form when water evaporates and this area has a large amount of salt. That would mean there was probably a large amount of water. So, yeah, it's exciting and every day we get to know something new about what was possible in ancient Mars. Yeah, so that's the kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So is the data pretty conclusive that Mars had water. Is that one of the main conclusions so far, or is that still? Yeah, wow, okay.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, mars definitely did have water. We see hydrated minerals. We see water fluid altered minerals. We see minerals that are formed because of drawing water. We see channels. Yeah and yeah, yeah, I would say that's pretty conclusive.
Speaker 2:Was it so where the rover is right now? What kind of body of water would have been there? Was it a river? Was it a lake, Some kind of Martian ocean?
Speaker 3:There are lots of thoughts about Martian oceans and I think one of the big accepted hypotheses are that Gale used to be a lake. It was a closed basin lake. There were some channels that ran into the lake and filled up and it left a lot of layers of sediments in it. And there's also thoughts on, there are evidences that there was also groundwater activity and the groundwater has what has caused all these very large amounts of water. It has caused all these vein-like features in Gale Crater and those are the things that I have studied in Still studying, have studied in my During my PhD. So these are salty veins that are left behind by water activity that probably took place after this large lake body had disappeared, which is also really exciting because it's underground and that that evidence kind of expands the window of habitability to not just the surface, which is constantly bombarded by harmful UV radiations, but underground, where Martian bugs could potentially thrive and not get burned down to a crisp.
Speaker 2:Right, you need some heavy-duty sunscreen on Mars right now SPF 9000.
Speaker 3:SPF 9000. Oh boy, you could mark it on Mars.
Speaker 2:So the other big question is I do believe as of now, there's still no evidence that there is life on Mars. What Is that true? Before I go into my next one, like is that still the consensus of the scientists?
Speaker 3:Broadly speaking, yes, we have. The Many scientists have found organic materials.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:On Mars. There's discovery of methane and things that are, you know, essential for life, but we definitely have not seen an alien that we can say that Like this is the real DNA strands or a walking Martian. We have not found that yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's. My next question is with what you are looking at, the data that's coming from this rover, what are some of the things that would be a ha's that these are signatures of life Because it's coming from a laser? That's like lasering things, right, right, okay, that's, I guess that's my question.
Speaker 3:So what we can tell is that there used to be a lot of water, there used to be all the minerals that are essential for the beginning of life. So I focus on this element, boron, and on Earth we know that boron, in presence of wet, dry seasonal cycles, aids in the prolongation. It aids in prolonging the lifetime of RNA strands or just catalyzing the reaction that forms aldehydes to RNA strands. So we know that there are elements that are very good for life, but it's also very hard to understand on Earth itself, how, what was the process that kind of brought together all these life or all these organic elements like carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, sulfur, into something that is life? So another difficult part of this question is when life has stopped being life for a really long time. It's very close to rocks. It just becomes, it goes back into its elemental form. So, yeah, which is kind of also what keeps us going, because there's so much potential to understand what happened on Mars. Yeah, it's a complex question.
Speaker 3:Easy question to ask.
Speaker 2:If life was very simple on Mars before things went south. We're thinking of bacteria type things and my understanding is like the squishy, non-boned creatures don't really stand the test of time.
Speaker 3:well yeah yeah, also that exactly, and also our. There's another discussion on how we perceive life. So maybe because Mars is our close neighbor, we have good reason to expect life to look kind of similar to ours, but there's also a possibility that it's not like anything that we have encountered here on Earth. So, yeah, it's a complex question that is.
Speaker 2:It's such a big question, it's so exciting. Exactly, I've talked to other scientists who study the cosmos and other scientists like yourself who study other planets or exoplanets. And wouldn't that be like the craziest day on Earth if some scientist was like, hey, we found a thing and it's proof of life, that would be bananas. Wouldn't it just grind the world to a stop?
Speaker 3:I think it would be a pretty bananas day. I don't know if you will grind the world to a stop, because I was having a similar conversation with the author of this book called the Possibility of Life, and actually I asked her the same question. I asked her what do you think will happen if we do find life on some planet or whatever? And she said, which was kind of funny she said that people have so many things going on in their lives that would be so busy, we're so busy, and the person who found it or the team who found it, their lives were changed significantly. The university's university would be impacted, well, but, but you know, overall, we'll see it on the news and we'll be like huh, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:I guess I don't know. I guess that's a very realistic way to look at it, because as human beings we are, you know, discovering so many new things every day and sure, like we know, the moon landing happened and we're making leaps and bounds in terms of progress in technology. So we're all just kind of waiting for it to happen and, as amazing as that would be, we would come to know a lot of things. But from like a perspective of just a person who saw it on the news. I think they'd be like that's really cool. I think it's really inspiring and I think the best thing that can happen is for them to be inspired to join the scientific community. Yeah, I think that's what would happen.
Speaker 2:It probably would be different if it was like bacteria found on Mars versus, like you know, jib jab from Nebula in Six says hello Right.
Speaker 3:I think it would be very, very different. Exactly, yeah. And you know like when scientists do talk about science, there's so many you know ifs and buts and we don't actually know if this is what has happened. Yeah, it would have to. It would depend on what kind of life we have found.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I'm awaiting that day. I hope I'm alive for it. When it happens Me too, maybe it'll be your team. That'd be very, very exciting.
Speaker 3:Oh boy, that would be so exciting, that would be very exciting.
Speaker 2:So I have another question, beyond what you're doing with the rover and I do a little background on all of the guests. And, okay, your art got yeeted into outer space. Like, who threw your art into outer space? Like what's going on with that?
Speaker 3:Right. So Planet, the company Planet.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, all right.
Speaker 3:Satellites. Yeah, yeah, they launched 36 superdove satellites in 2022. That was, I think, to supplement their current fleet of about 200 satellites to provide a complete view of Earth, get more data. So they I think they do this every time they launch they call out for artists to submit their art to put on their satellite panels, which makes them the largest extraterrestrial art exhibit. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's just, it's this largest space art exhibition, I guess.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my friend Tanya Harrison, who's also my collaborator.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love her.
Speaker 3:I know we all love Tanya so we have a little art collaboration together. We have this platform called Enterstellar where we make like artsy, science, sciencey, art things.
Speaker 2:And she told me I love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she told me about this. She said that at that time she was working with Planet and she said you should totally apply for this. And I read the description and the theme for 2022, I think was caring for a changing Planet and that really struck a chord and I felt like it's really cool and I really want to do it. So they had a format for the two panel sizes and on one panel I drew this kind of dandelion with the dandelion seeds flying away and kind of transitioning into satellites and rockets that are also flying away.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3:So I'm seeing the balance between technology and how much care we need to take for a Planet. And the second panel I drew the James Webb space telescope and it has these really cool hexagons which kind of reminded me of a beehive. So I kind of drew that, I etched it out like a beehive and I drew a couple of bees around and also the bees kind of transitioning like rockets.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I had a really great time drawing that and I submitted it and I didn't really like. I forgot about it after a while. But then one day I got an email I think this looks like right the day before the launch. They said like oh, your design has been just selected too.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I think they told you before. You're like oh by the way your art's in outer space now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think they had etched it already and the day before I got the news and I tweeted about it and I think people thought that was really cool.
Speaker 2:It is cool.
Speaker 3:I think it's really cool too.
Speaker 2:I have exactly zero things of mine in outer space.
Speaker 3:Well, you can apply for this one for the next set of satellites, okay. But yeah, I think the Montreal News people were very excited about it because a lot of the news at that point was about COVID.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, End of the news. Yeah, feel good story where they need big time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was happy that it added to the feel goodness of that time. Yeah, and that's my story about eating my art into space.
Speaker 2:So the question is if it comes back, is it worth more? Does the price go up?
Speaker 3:I don't think it comes back.
Speaker 2:Oh, does it come back ever?
Speaker 3:It burns out and it kind of orbits and burns due to the friction of the movement.
Speaker 2:It's on a one-way trip.
Speaker 3:It's on a one-way trip.
Speaker 2:Well, that is very cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not at all. Actually, my profile picture on Twitter. What I did was I had taken a picture of myself against a black wall.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and so I really liked that this happened in my life and I just took that artwork and kind of forced it behind me because that is cool, yeah, wow. Yeah, so there you have it.
Speaker 2:That is amazing. Thanks for sharing that such a cool story. Thank you for sharing that with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:So, debarty, we have a couple of standard questions we ask our guests on the Science Podcast, and the first one is a pet story. This is the Science Podcast, and we always ask our guests to share a pet story that they have from their life. I was wondering if you have one for us.
Speaker 3:I used to have a pet. Because of limited resources and this was in Canada I couldn't bring my pet. I used to have a pet cat and I couldn't bring her to New Mexico. But I have befriended a neighborhood cat and my partner is allergic to animals so I can't, and we're not allowed to have any animals in our house. But that does not stop me from befriending every animal I meet outside. We do have a little backyard kind of a thing, so there is a cat and I hope my landlady is not here listening to this.
Speaker 3:But I leave like a little treat for the cat to encourage the kitty to visit us, and sometimes the kitty comes by and they come by and they just like sit there and when it comes by on sunny days and they eat the little treat and they look at the birds. And now I'm also a little bit worried because I don't want the kitty to, like you know, drive away the birds. But yeah, I think it's a pretty chill kitty. They just sit there, look at the birds, pretend that they're going to hunt, but then quickly realize that the birds are very fast for the kitty. So they just like go under the backyard table because it gets a little too sunny and they just chill and hang out. And it's a really nice presence because I can see them and I'm working from my table here. I see the kitty just like sitting there, chilling, looking at birds.
Speaker 2:Do you have a name for it? Did you name the kitty?
Speaker 3:I think I'm going to name it Kitty.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3:My previous kitty's name was also Kitty, because I had given her a very fancy name and she never responded to it. But I just called her Kitty and then she would look up, and she would look up, and I said Kitty and she would just look up. So I think it became Kitty. So every kitty is now Kitty.
Speaker 2:I love that Our cat's name is Ginger, but she does not respond to her name at all.
Speaker 3:You should try, kitty.
Speaker 2:She responds when you have treats, then she will come to do, she will come for performances, so oh, wow. Yeah, we have Bunsen and Beaker, of course, so they know when it's time to work for social media photos or videos. And now the cat is like hmm, they're getting ready, I'm going to come get ready too. So it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3:Big fan, by the way. Just letting you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:Beaker and Ginger wonderful. I was super excited when I saw your messages. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:They're pretty adorable, but your story was awesome. Thank you for sharing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:The other standard question we have on the podcast is the super fact. It's something that you know, that when you tell people it kind of like blows their mind a bit. I was wondering could you share a super fact with us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, when you ask that, when you sent me the question, I kind of have to think about it, and one thing that really like blows my mind when I think a little hard about it, is how hard it is to define life, how hard it is to just have a definition that scientists can work off of like, yeah, this thing fully, you know, follows all these rules and hence is now considered life Like we live it and we know what it is by experiencing it, but we can't really define it in its entirety and I think that really blows my mind and I think that's a motivation for a lot of scientific inquiry. It's like there are so many ramifications of it and it just keeps us going, us not knowing what life really is, what it could be. We have the imagination of what it could be, but we don't know, and I think that really blows my mind.
Speaker 2:You know, I've talked to a couple virologists and even in like people who study viruses. There's huge debate about if viruses are alive or not.
Speaker 3:Alive or not, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we teach it in school that right now, like before, it was like no, they're not alive, no, not. And now it's like, oh, no, maybe.
Speaker 3:Maybe exactly, and we're like we're living it right and it's just like our alive brains don't really have a definition for it, which kind of drives us crazy. We obviously want our human minds, want to classify everything. But yeah, I think it's beautiful and it's a pretty mind blowing fact that we don't really know it. Know what that means, you know that?
Speaker 2:that is a cool thing you've just brought up, because it would be really offensive if, like, aliens are studying us and they're like, oh, they're not alive you know, imagine, right, yeah like, just like. Oh, they're not no no, they're so they're so biotic.
Speaker 3:They're so not advanced yeah that they can't be called intelligent and they haven't mastered interstellar travel, they're not alive they're sending robots to their planet.
Speaker 2:That's really funny actually, yeah oh boy, okay, that is a super fact. Sometimes super facts make you super think deeply about them. So if you're driving and you're having an existential crisis, please, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like huh, we don't even know what life is. What's the point, right?
Speaker 2:thanks for sharing that doc yeah, of course the last section of the podcast is a fun one. We get to know a little bit more about our guests outside of their science, and it's where we talk about hobbies or causes that you're passionate about. You wanted to talk about painting and moving, and maybe both happen at the same time. I'm not real clear on that, so I'm.
Speaker 3:They haven't happened together at the same time okay but that's actually a great idea.
Speaker 3:Maybe I should combine them and see what happens. I'm so I love painting, as I said before. I think at a certain point in my life it was a fork between going to art school or doing science, and I remember my dad saying that if you go into art you may not be able to do science, but if you do science you will be able to do art. I think that's a little bit messed up, but that's kind of how it has turned out. I am able to do science and I'm able to do art, and I I I am very hopeful that artists today are able to collaborate with scientists every day to bring out the beauty of science and art. So, yeah, I paint a lot.
Speaker 2:I like to paint landscapes and I like to paint caffeinated beverages and cakes, pastries really yes like coffee or red bowl, because coffee okay, that's what the kids drink, for I'm like what is that? And they're like it's a red bull and I'm just drink coffee. What's the matter with you guys?
Speaker 3:yeah, I know. Or tea, something relaxing yeah, I think that that's what draws me to. It is like the cafe aspect of it. I like to draw a little plate of a cake and a coffee next to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in my brain that's just like the ultimate comfort and escape from, you know, the stresses of day to day life, when I, saturday and Sunday, I take like 30 minutes in the morning on my days off to just have a coffee and just chill.
Speaker 3:Yes, or I take my coffee out on the deck with the dogs and just chill yeah, when you add Bunsen bird to the picture, beaker to the picture, that that's an even better picture. That's so much more relaxing than just coffee and cake and ginger and ginger to that too yeah yeah, yeah. So I like painting and I also, I think movement is also very important for me so what is this?
Speaker 2:what does that mean? Doc movement?
Speaker 3:I like dancing and oh yeah, so I? This is very unconventional, but I am a pole dancer or I'm into pole fitness and a lot yeah, a lot of my friends who are also into it.
Speaker 3:It's just wonderful to see explore. It's wonderful to see them explore movement. They're all their teachers and other scientists and they're in computer science and they have all kinds of hobbies and they're just exploring fitness through different kinds of dance. I also like I just like complex movements that human bodies can do. Human bodies have a lot of potential and it's not just the mind, it's also the body and it helps me focus better and, yeah, I just really like moving. I've noticed that if I haven't, if I want, I'm really stressed out and I deep prioritize movement. My work suffers a little bit, so I have to go dance somewhere that is so cool, that's really that's.
Speaker 2:You know, like the only dancing I have done in my life is dance, dance, revolution. So it's a quite a bit different.
Speaker 3:It's quite a bit yeah yeah, and it's also kind of helped me realize the the stereotypes. Often people kind of well stereotype pole dancing is like oh, that is, you know, not for normal people. It has a stigma attached to it. So it kind of helped me open my mind towards a community like. Pole dancing has originated from sex work, but that I mean there's no reason to demean that or just because I'm a scientist. You know, scientists always have this very when, when you ask kids like what does a scientist look like some, some of them may say that oh, it looks like an older man with glasses old white dude old white dude with glasses and lab coat, and not that I'm saying I'm out there to like really break that stereotype.
Speaker 3:But honestly, I just want to be a human being who has all these very interests. I want to be a full human being and if pole dancing is what you know speaks to me, I want to do that, and I also want to do badass science, so that's so cool, very inspirational thank you that's awesome I'm.
Speaker 2:I was scrolling through your feed and I there's a video you've posted from tiktok of that. Definitely requires a heck of a lot of fitness to pull off any of those moves yeah, it gets you to a certain fitness level.
Speaker 3:I will say that, yes, I think in my curtain.
Speaker 2:It hurt. I am. My fitness level is lifting very heavy weights, not not what you're doing.
Speaker 3:So quite a bit impressive. I mean you might be good at pull because you have to lift your own body weight.
Speaker 2:So maybe, maybe. Well, that is cool. Thank you for sharing a little bit more about yourself. It gives a. It gives the idea that scientists, of course, are really good at what they do in their area, but they're people just like everybody else exactly, yeah, awesome de party. We're at the end of our chat, sadly. Can people follow you on social media? Are you? Do you have accounts you'd like people to know about?
Speaker 3:of course, my Twitter is space wicca. I think I posed a lot of the science content there and art and stuff like that, and I also if there's something on tiktok that I'm inspired to share, I'll I just share it on my Twitter.
Speaker 2:So I think Twitter is great because I post my other social media stuff on there too sweet interested yeah, okay, so we'll make sure there's a link in the show notes thank you so much so I have. The big question as we end is if you and your team do find life on Mars, could you send us a DM?
Speaker 3:I mean absolutely okay. I mean, I don't know if I will be the DMer.
Speaker 2:I could be, but I am not as in.
Speaker 3:Like, I'm not a representative. I think there's so many more important people on the team compared to me.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm such a small part of it closer to the top of NASA. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll let you know and you can go interview there okay there we go. Yeah, I'll definitely like let you know that's awesome from for me to you.
Speaker 2:It was a pleasure to talk to you and thank you for giving up your time today, doc thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Was great talking to you as well we are proud to have bark and beyond supply comm now as an official sponsor of the science podcast. Bark and beyond supply comm is a small family owned company that started off making joint supplements for dogs, but now they sell toys and treats and a whole bunch of other goodies. Skip the big box stores and check out the amazing deals and awesome stuff at bark and beyond supply comm. You'll see a link in our show notes and use the coupon code Bunsen B U N S E N for 10% off at bark and beyond supply comm. Click the link. Skip the big box stores. How about the little guy?
Speaker 1:okay, it is time for story time. Me. If you don't know what's for time is. Story time is when we talk about a story that have happened in the past one or two weeks and that involves Bunsen, beaker or ginger. Dad, do you have?
Speaker 2:a story. Yeah, I will tell a story that happened today, because I think Chris is gonna tell another story about beaker. We took the dogs for a walk before this massive storm. Chris and I worked really hard. We got all of text from Bunsen to done so that we're just on editing now and I mowed our lawn and did some weed eating and then it was time to take dogs for a walk. So we took them for a walk and Bunsen got up to the top of the hill across the creek and he stood in the wind sniffing the air, and he stood for a long that was your first QG.
Speaker 4:That was your first clue that something was going to go awry something.
Speaker 2:Also he was acting so happy. He was zooming around in the wildflowers and then he stood in a weird spot and he sniffed the wind. Now normally he stands and he smells the wind anyways, but this was like way too long. And then he took off like a shotgun. He took off like a rocket and he roared to a super weird spot way, way to the west of where we normally walk, and then we were trying to catch up.
Speaker 2:But the ground is treacherous, it's like on this ravine, and he Bunsen was rolling in something. Beaker was like oh, I guess I'll follow what you're doing, I catch up to them and it is a very, very dead, extremely rotten duck. I don't know where the duck came from. It could have been a creek, the duck that was down in the creek, but I just about vomited. It smelled so bad and I got Bunsen and beaker out of there and then they were happy to come back on the walk.
Speaker 2:But it was if you were following Bunsen from behind, it was like following death. He smelled so bad, beaker not, not as bad. I think maybe she missed it because he's not great at rolling on dead things. But done Bunsen. Bunsen rolls on dead things with laser accuracy, so he smelled so bad by the time we got back. It was time they both got a hose bath and even though Bunsen did not like it at all, we give him a huge hose bath. We double shampooed his entire body so he smells great, but he's still very, very wet. And he was very, very upset with me because of whenever he has a bath, I'm the scapegoat. I get in trouble. So that's my story for this week.
Speaker 4:Jason, would you like to tell everybody how wet the floor gets and what shoes you should not wear on your feet when you have wet dog?
Speaker 2:we have this really nice tile floor and I'm kicking myself that we didn't maybe spend a little bit more money and tile the entire upper floor, because the tile is like indestructible it looks really nice, it's super easy to clean, but when it gets wet it is like somebody has squirted canola oil all over a slip and slide. If you walk too quickly in bare feet you will eat it and die. And I was getting the dogs in. I had to put beaker in the bathroom so she didn't touch anything with her gross death smell and I just about fell on my head after because Bunsen shook and made the whole ground super wet and my rubber boots I was wearing. I didn't have time to take them off because I wanted to get beaker and I just about just about slipped backwards onto my face. It would have been a whole thing. So, yes, our tile floor gets very, very slippery.
Speaker 1:I have a story. I have like two stories. One story is something that I just noticed. Beaker listens to the thunder Whenever there's thunder like. Beaker heard the thunder like two seconds ago and she turned her head and lifted her ears and sniffed the air and looked towards it because she was concerned about what the thunder was. Ginger is deathly afraid of thunder and thunderstorms and she hates them and she goes downstairs to hide because she's a cat and she's cute but she's small and she's scared. But Beaker lifted her ears, looked towards the thunder and went and then walked on and, yeah, this was all happening while Bunsen was eating a carrot.
Speaker 2:Bunsen has. This is a new thing. He gets a one carrot a day, a giant carrot, and he is so happy with his carrot.
Speaker 1:He loves carrot. Both the dogs love carrots. Every time I make like a sandwich and I sometimes put carrot in the sandwich. They love carrots, they love cheese, they love a little bit of ham. They love anything that I will give them while I'm making sandwiches, and carrots is one of those. They love carrots so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and carrot is good for dogs to have everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good for their digestive system. Anyway, mom, do you have a story?
Speaker 4:I sure do. I'm going to talk about Beaker going to dog diving. Hooray, I took her with Jason. I looked online for dog diving, I did the search dog diving in Central Alberta and I found an organization that is fairly close to home and I said Jason, I'm going to book her in. And he said that's awesome and booked her in yesterday at 10 30 am for an introductory session in the pool. And the introductory session wants to go over.
Speaker 4:Like what are your goals for your dog? Is it, would you like her to be a dog diver or do you want just a little bit more experience with swimming or confidence in the water? And we said we just want to follow Beaker's lead and see what she would like to do. And she had a really great time Right away. She didn't go for the duck that we brought as the amphibious toy, but she did go for the two toys that the instructor had and she learned to do like long street jumps or wading in the water and then diagonal and then jumping off the dock. And she had a really great time. And that's my story.
Speaker 2:That was one of the I was. I had so much fun watching her swimming. I want to say it was one of the top like five things I've done with the dogs in my life and docked out like I know Beaker was. It hasn't been docked she didn't actually dock dive, but just seeing her have a place to swim and how much fun she was having that was so very, very cool. It reminds me of how Bunsen acts when the snow starts.
Speaker 4:Yeah and one thing is that we brought treats and so Jason would throw the toy and I would. She would come back and and drop the toy and I would give her a treat. And I was thinking, hey, she really likes this and she did. But then she started saying, no, I actually don't need the treat, just being able to go and jump in the water and retrieve the toy and bring it back is enough of a reward, which is so cute.
Speaker 3:Anyway, we're going hi Bunsen.
Speaker 4:Anyway, we're going tomorrow again for another half hour session in the pool and it's going to be a really great time again and that's my story. Okay, that is it for story time.
Speaker 1:Thank you all so much for listening to this which episode of the podcast and sticking around to my section. I will see y'all in the next podcast episode. Bye, bye, that's it for this week's show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming back week after week to listen to the science podcast and if you haven't tried listening to your podcasts on Good Pods, we really recommend it. Special thanks to our expert guest this week, dr DeBarty Doss. What a cool job seeing what that rovers up to, and a special shout out to our top dogs. Those are our top tier community members on the Popac. If you want to hear your name or support the science podcast, check out the link in the show notes to the Popac. Take it away, chris.
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