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The Science Pawdcast
The Science Pawdcast breaks down the latest science happening in the human world AND the pet world.
Each episode will also bring you a guest to enthral you with their area of knowledge.
You'll learn, be captivated, and laugh along with host Jason Zackowski.
Pets and Science, it's the pawfect mix.
You'll also get episodes of SciChat and PetChat which are the live shows from social audio.
SciChat has an interview and Q+A with a scientist, while PetChat is a live community gathering for games and stories about pets!
For Science, Empathy, and Cuteness!
The Science Pawdcast
Science Chat - Unveiling Biotech Wonders with MJ Huntsgood: From Life-Saving Vaccines to Pet Tales
Step into the captivating world of biotech innovation with the delightful MJ Huntsgood, who joins our Science Chat straight from the life sciences hub near Washington DC. MJ's journey from a bug-loving biology aficionado to a biotech manufacturing maven, intricately involved in the development of pharmaceutical marvels like Keytruda, is nothing short of inspiring. Our conversation paints a vivid picture of the science behind everyday wonders, with a splash of MJ's Spider-Man-inspired charm, lifting the veil on the complex process of vaccine manufacturing with stories that connect the dots between high-tech labs and the medications that change lives.
Eager to understand what goes into making the medications you rely on? We've got the insider's take! MJ Huntsgood unravels the transformative shift in biotech manufacturing, from stainless steel tanks to single-use bioreactors, and celebrates the unsung heroes of quality control. You'll get a firsthand look at the teamwork necessary to bring life-saving treatments from the lab bench to bedside. Plus, we tackle the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, demystifying adenovirus vector technology, and addressing public concerns with clarity and care to reveal the meticulous science behind each vial.
We round off this episode with heartfelt discussions on the profound impact vaccines have on our lives, sharing personal tales and the broader societal trust these medical advances command. I delve into my unexpected foray into speculative fiction writing, offering a peek into worlds woven from my imagination. And, of course, no episode would be complete without our weekly pet chat, where lovable cat tales and the shenanigans of Ginger the dog leave us with a sense of the joy and comfort our furry friends provide. Tune in for an episode that bridges the gap between hard science and the human heart, where curiosity meets compassion in every story told.
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Hello science enthusiasts. My name is Jason Zakowski. I'm the dog dad of Bunsen and Beaker the science dogs on social media. Welcome to Science Chat.
Speaker 1:My co-host today is Hi there, I'm Chris Zakowski. I am the dog mom to Bunsen and Beaker and the cat mom to Chit-Chir.
Speaker 2:Every week in Science Chat well, not every week when we can. In Science Chat, we bring you an amazing expert in an area of science, and today I'm thrilled to welcome MJ Huntsgood. Mj, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3:I'm doing awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yay, yay, yeah, we're excited to have you too as well. Where are you in the world? Where are you calling into the show from?
Speaker 3:I'm calling from Washington DC. Well, I'm a little bit outside of Washington DC. I'm over in Rockville, and anyone who lives in Washington DC knows that Rockville is about an hour from Rockville. So we have a lot of traffic in this area.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have heard from a couple of folks who are, you know, like they're Bunsen and Beaker people, the track they live around Washington and they say traffic can be horrendous.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I take the Metro in now and it's been a life changing event.
Speaker 2:Oh, instead of trying to drive or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's basically like. It's like a subway. It goes down below the area and it's wonderful I get to relax. I get to read it's been great.
Speaker 2:Chris, would you take? Would you take like a subway to work if you could?
Speaker 1:Well, I do like door to door service, so maybe I would.
Speaker 2:I kind of you know what, like some days, I'd like to you know it would make me more efficient. I'd be able to work on way more Bunsen and Beaker content if I didn't have to like focus and drive. I could work on that on a train or read or play, probably a phone app or something. So, mj, you're a scientist yourself. What's your training in science?
Speaker 3:So I started out working in biology and I got my degree in biology and then I thought I'd be one of those lab technicians sitting with the CSI music because I was pipetting from one beaker into the next. But I actually ended up moving right into biotechnology manufacturing and I was working with 10,000 liter bioreactors and it was really, really cool work. It was kind of like blue collar work with a white piping, where you were lifting these large beakers from one end to the other and working on making major revelations in technology right in front of your eyes. We actually worked on. My first project right out of college was working on Keytruda, which is an immunotherapeutic, when it was working on its stage three trials. It was really, really cool and to do that right out of college was incredible. I went right into manufacturing, did that for a long time and now I'm a program manager working in contracts. So, just so you know, all of my opinions are my own, so if you ever see me walking down the streets of Washington DC, I don't represent my employer.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's good. That's good to know. Um were? Were you a science kid growing up, like you like going into science and biology and then some other stuff like were you enamored with science, with science as a kid?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. My parents bought me a chemistry set when I was a kid, but I was really into bugs. I loved insects, I love spiders and that's where my nickname, mj, came from, so I was really into spiders. People used to call me spider-man's girlfriend, mj I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it, I was. You know, mj is a classic nickname for mary jane watson, so I was wondering if there was a spider-man connection there. Um I have the red hair I see that, yes, yes, for those of you who are watching live, mj does have red hair. Uh, so tough question, mj which is your favorite spider-man?
Speaker 3:oh, that's a really tough question, I have to say toby mcguire, because that was my spider-man when I was in high school. Yeah, I'm turning 40 this year, so I am one of those older millennials. But I really love the newest spider-man. He's really. He's really sassy, he's really funny and I love that that movie where they had all three of them together. I thought that was really great nostalgia yeah, I love it too.
Speaker 2:Chris, do you have a favorite spider-man of the three of them?
Speaker 1:um, jason, I think I really enjoy the toby mcguire as well. That's because we're we're a little older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're a little older than the youngins and you know the kids I teach we'll all say that the new Garfield. Andrew Garfield. They'll all to say Andrew yeah.
Speaker 3:But we really have to, we have to always say Miles Morales though, he's such a good Spider-Man, he's cool, he's such a good Spider-Man.
Speaker 2:He's cool. He's cool. Yeah, I love, I love those cartoons and I can't wait to see him in the Marvel universe like a live action Miles Morales, so, um. But we're not necessarily here to talk about Spider-Man, but I love talking about Spider-Man. Um, you have spent quite a bit of time, um, in vaccine manufacturing. Um time in vaccine manufacturing. I was wondering if you could tell us just a little bit about that and maybe we'll get into some specifics.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. What I started out in is what's called monoclonal antibody manufacturing. So it sounds really complicated but it's actually really really simple if you break it down to what it really is. Basically, there's two different kinds of manufacturing there's small, there's small molecule manufacturing and there's large molecule manufacturing.
Speaker 3:Your small molecules are like your Tylenols, your Advils. They're pretty small and you can make them by combining this chemical and that chemical and you smush them together and you get a pill. Well, large molecules those are your those. They're a little too complicated. Just smush things together to get a pill. Well, large molecules, those are your those. They're a little too complicated. Just smush things together to get a pill.
Speaker 3:So what you do is you take a cell, like, say, you're going to take a Chinese hamster ovary.
Speaker 3:You tell that ovary well, I don't want you to be ovary shaped anymore, I just want you to be cells and then you program that cell to make your large molecule.
Speaker 3:And what I would do in manufacturing is I would be kind of like a zookeeper, keeping those cells growing and healthy until they were enough of them that they could produce enough of the large molecule that I needed, and then I would stress out the cells that it would produce.
Speaker 3:Now you can stress them out in a number of ways. You can make them cold, you can lower their pH there's a lot of different things you can do and you would make them produce, and produce, and produce until you had enough of a titer, or enough of basically what your production number you needed was, and then you'd wipe out all of those cells by putting them through chromatography skids or a lot of filters, until all you had left was your molecule of interest, or your large molecule, and then you'd produce it through by adding sugars and salts until you had a medicine that your body could actually accept. One way to know if you've ever taken a medicine like this is if you look at your medicine and if it says Mab at the end, like Pembromizumab, then you know you have a monoclonal antibody, that's a large molecule medication. Those are the kinds that you're taking.
Speaker 2:What's an example of that? I'm not familiar.
Speaker 3:Something like Humira, which is a very common um injectable dermatological medication that you can take for um pimples. You can take it for uh uh. Basically, if you have uh overgrown um uh lymph nodes, you can take Humira. That's a monoclonal antibody. Keytruda is a commonly taken cancer medication. That's a monoclonal antibody. Those are things that you can take. They're usually injectables because they are such a large molecule and you take them regularly. You can find them from your dermatologist. My brother takes one, my husband takes one, and another one that you can know of is the J&J vaccine, which was a monoclonal antibody viral vector vaccine that was produced by Emergent and Merck last year for COVID and currently is being produced by J&J.
Speaker 2:So I'm fascinated. I have a couple just clarifying questions. Go right ahead. You start with, did you say a hamster ovary cell? Is that what you said?
Speaker 3:It's called a Cho cell. It's a Chinese hamster ovary cell. It's been used for over 40 years and the reason why is because it's such a simple cell.
Speaker 3:When you're doing these cells, you want them to be very, very simple so that they don't slice open. Very simple so that they don't slice open. You don't get a bunch of stuff inside of your production, because you're going to start out with a very, very small vial of what's called a working cell bank and that's going to be your modified cell, your modified bunch of cells, and you're going to grow them up into a beaker and then you're going to grow them up into a slightly larger bioreactor until you grow it up into a thousand liter bioreactor. And bioreactors aren't what you think they look like when you go on to like Star Trek, they're going to look like a brewery.
Speaker 2:I was just going to ask if they looked like a giant vat of brewing beer, like that's that. That my first thought. Really, that was my first thought when you said, um, like like the term you use. I apologize I, I just my mind's just slipping. I just assumed it was like a giant vat of beer Cause my dad brewed brewed beer for his a hobby.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we actually can use yeast also to produce medication as well. Use yeast also to produce medication as well. I was producing a vaccine in 2017 and we were using E coli, because E coli could produce it inside of them and they're so simple. Then we would lice them open and take their guts out and filter and filter and filter until all we had left was that large molecule.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't necessarily have to be that hamster cell. Correct they can be one of many cells.
Speaker 3:They can be an S0 cell, which is a mouse cell. They can be E coli, they can be insect cells sometimes it all depends on what cell is going to be the best factory to produce these in, because they work well to make molecules and they work like little tiny factories and they're so smart because we will program them to work to make them um, kind of like when, um, uh, when, uh. My mind is blanking on his name, the one who produced penicillin from a mold.
Speaker 3:Oh but that's not actually what happened, because he actually produced it from a, from a rabbit spine.
Speaker 2:Pasteur.
Speaker 3:Pasteur. Pasteur Cause he actually was using animal cells to make vaccines. We now use them by programming the animal cells to make vaccines.
Speaker 2:We now use them by programming the animal cells to make vaccines Interesting. So they're like a little 3D printing machine, printing the things that you've told it to print, and then they just keep making that, making that, making that, and when you feel that they've made enough, you take away the machine and you're just left with the thing they made.
Speaker 3:Correct, it's a little less more than when we feel it's actually highly calculated.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Fascinating scale up, because what you do is think about when you're making Kool-Aid.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know when you're pouring the amount of Kool-Aid in, when you reach that critical mass, that it's going to be too sour, and then you know you've wrecked your Kool-Aid. It's the same thing when you're producing the amount of vaccine that you need.
Speaker 3:You take every single day, multiple times a day, you take a sampling from your bioreactor and you test it to see how much tighter you have and when you've reached the critical point, before it gets too sour, you're going to stop and then you're going to remove the cells, because then you're going to know I have enough, that this is the right amount to start producing medications at.
Speaker 3:You know, filtering things out, ensuring that we're ready to start making, to dose into bottles, into bags, because if you make too much more, it won't be, you won't be able to start producing. How much you need? Um, and all that is highly calculated because you start out when you're someone, the scientists who are phds, who are working on their research. They're making very, very tiny bioreactors that are the size of a deck of cards, and then they work on scale-up that will get them to a bioreactor that's the size of a bread box, and then they'll get to a bioreactor that's the size of a desk and then they'll go to these 10,000 liter reactors. And that's why normally, when you're making medications, it takes 10, 15 years is because you have to work on all of these scale ups.
Speaker 2:You have to know how to program the cell. Like like, tiny, tiny amounts, get it to work and you're like now, how do we make 10,000 liters of this? That doesn't sound like a problem that will be solved overnight.
Speaker 3:Correct, overnight Correct the only difference between this and the COVID vaccine. The reason why the COVID vaccine was able to scale up so quickly was because the COVID vaccine already had a blueprint. We had already been making COVID vaccines for years and years. The only difference was the COVID-19 was just a little bit different than previous COVID vaccines. So they already knew how to scale up, they knew how to make the titer, they knew which cell lines to use. All of that was already blueprinted out before. They just had to make minor tweaks to the initial research programs.
Speaker 2:Right, like previous coronaviruses. Is that what you're referring to?
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I hope that made sense, sense.
Speaker 3:I was kind of getting really excited because this is one of my favorite things to talk about yeah, and just one more thing before maybe we get to the, the jj vaccine.
Speaker 2:I, yeah, do you feel and this is me personally I'm learning a lot right now? Um, just because I'm not a biologist, I'm more of a chemist, and and I the chemistry is my jam, not, you know, living systems and the immune response and all that kind of things. When you said you work with monoclonal antibodies, I may be a little, I'm a little embarrassed, to admit. I just assumed you meant vaccines and that's what you make, but it's. A whole host of other medications are made this way.
Speaker 3:Correct. You can make immunotherapeutics, you can make dermatological medications, you can make. Most of it are injectables. I don't know. I honestly don't know the whole breadth of what you can make with an MAB.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's so much that can be made and there are people who are significantly smarter than me who know that kind of an answer.
Speaker 3:I know what I have personally made with it and it's incredible. There's so much that can be made with a map and so much that can be made with adenovectors that are made in similar ways to that, and it's just the manufacturing process behind these are so brilliant and exciting and there are a lot more novel processes that are going into it now. When I first started in biological manufacturing, we were only working with stainless steel tanks, breweries, but now we also are seeing the rise of single-use bioreactors, which are literally plastic bioreactors that are sterilized from the inside, that you pull up pump full of sterilized air, use once, pull down and throw away. So you don't have to waste your time cleaning, sterilizing a bioreactor, wasting that space. You can utilize it once and it reduces error. It reduces error traps, it reduces the danger of hot tanks. It's fascinating and those just started up around the time that I left the manufacturing floor and started becoming a program manager and I think that they're so incredibly cool and they are taking the manufacturing world by storm.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I kind of feel like you know horrific things could go wrong with an unclean, unsterilized tank, with what you do, Just like when my dad had a bad batch of beer go sour.
Speaker 3:Fortunately there are so many that one of the coolest things about biotech manufacturing is you don't just have a manufacturing person. I worked in manufacturing so obviously manufacturing is the best, but I worked in manufacturing but there are so many different people on a team that come together because you also have quality assurance and anyone in manufacturing will tell you quality assurance is the are the people who have your back. There will never be. Well, there should never be a unclean, unsterilized tank out there that gets product in it, because your quality assurance person is basically like your Superman. They come in, they check every single piece of paper behind you. They make sure that every single thing is correct. They never touch your tank, they never touch your medicine, but they touch every single piece of paper Every time you hear something go wrong.
Speaker 3:On the news that happened. A quality assurance person caught that. A quality assurance person is the one who checks every signature and they are unsung heroes. I had a quality assurance person in my wedding, like that's how much I love them because they are the ones who check for mistakes and they catch them.
Speaker 2:Interesting, so they're definitely a step up from the quality assurance officer for Dunder, mifflin Creed Bratton.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. These ones are the ones who are checking your numbers. They're checking your, your, your questions, and then and we, we, we bought heads, yeah, yeah, but they protect you. And this is just a shout out to every quality assurance person out there. They work so hard and their jobs are so thankless. I love them so much.
Speaker 3:And then you also have your quality control people and those are our scientists who come in and they plate every single bioreactor. They make sure there's nothing wrong on there. They make sure there's no, no bacteria. Nothing's growing inside. They'll go in there after every single issue that happens and they'll plate the entire bioreactor to make sure it's clean and sterile happens, and they'll plate the entire bioreactor to make sure it's clean and sterile. And they, they're part of the team. And then we have facilities who make sure everything's working. And then we also have engineering who make sure that those sterilization pumps are working correctly. And everybody comes together. So it's not just manufacturing touching this, it's every part of a whole team, and I love them all. I get warm and fuzzies when I think about how much we all work together to put this medicine out. So if you ever get interested in becoming part of biotech, you don't have to just be a scientist. You can be a wordsmith, you can be an engineer. You can be more than just that.
Speaker 2:That's so fascinating. It's like an area that you know, like it's an area of all of these different medications and including the vaccines. It's no like I don't know what goes on, I just they just show up, right, you get the, get a prescription from your doctor or you get your vaccine from your local pharmacist. It's just, I really appreciate you being with us tonight, mj, if you've, if you've just, joined us. Hello, this is Science Chat. I'm Jason, I'm the host, my wife is Chris, she's the co-host, she's on audio spaces right now To the 500-some people watching us live. Hello, very exciting. And our guest is manufacturing specialist MGA Huntsgood. Hi, I like to do a little reset as people come into the room. Absolutely so, if you will indulge me, we're going to go into a little bit about the vaccine, which is, depending on where you are on social media, it can be definitely a touchy subject. You worked on the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, is that correct? I worked.
Speaker 3:I worked for the company that worked on the vaccine I'm very vaccine is. Is that correct? I worked well.
Speaker 5:I worked for the company that worked on the vaccine.
Speaker 2:I'm very, I'm very aware of it, right yeah yeah and I worked on several other covid vaccines throughout the covid pandemic right, okay, I I framed that incorrectly, so you at the start you kind of you explained a bit about it. I would, would you be okay to just do that again, like what is the, the jj vaccine? Because it's different than the mRNA vaccine, like there are two totally different vaccines.
Speaker 3:Correct, so it's a.
Speaker 3:Dino virus vaccine. So what it is? It is grown in what's called an HEK cell. Yeah, so that's a human embryonic kidney cell. And what happens with these vaccine, with this vaccine, is it is grown very like a monoclonal antibody cell, and the way I described that earlier is basically you have a cell and it works like a factory to grow your um, to grow your large molecule. Only this one works with a virus. To basically prep it and get it ready to go, you do the same exact thing as before. You grow it up, you check your titers, you stress it out, then you wash out the cells, collect your medication and chromatography skids, collect it, get your bulk vaccine, send it out to get it ready to go.
Speaker 3:One of the things about the J&J vaccines that's so important is that it was. I've just lost my train of thought. I got a little bit nervous there. I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 3:One of the important things about the J&J vaccine is that it was incorrectly framed by certain people as being not well made or incorrectly made because it was being made in HEK cells, and that was something that I had seen in a couple of articles. Is that? Why is it being made in kidney cells? Why is this happening? One of the things that one of the reasons why I started out the conversation earlier talking about Cho cells, chinese hamster ovary cells and the reason, the way that we made them by taking a hamster ovary and saying, well, you're not going to be made like a hamster ovary anymore, we're going to take out that gene and now just grow you as cells is because that's what we do with HEK cells is you're not going to be growing like a kidney anymore, we're going to take you and take out that gene and now you're just going to be growing like cells. The thing about HEK cells is we've been doing that for 40, 50 years now.
Speaker 3:Hek cells are a standard line In the science world for manufacturing. We have several standard lines that we use when we're trying to discover cell lines to grow up manufacturing lines. In NS0 cells, cho cells, hek cells. There are several duct lines, insect lines. When you're trying to find a safe line to grow your new vaccines in, you want to find stable lines, lines that we know work, lines that we know are safe for humans, lines that we know aren't going to mutate after a certain number of generations, lines that you know are going to freeze well lines that you know are safe in different kinds of media. You don't want a media that's going to be crazy expensive and hurt the American population. Hek cells grow in very basic media. So when I was reading these different articles of people saying, oh, why are they growing up in kidney cells? It was a sign to me that there's not enough education out there explaining how we work with adenoviruses and monoclonal antibodies.
Speaker 2:I had no idea, MJ. Like this is news to me Exactly. This is good to hear this that I had no idea. Like it just seemed, this is a cell that you've manufacturing. This is not a new technology. Like this is the exact cell that's been used for 40 years, One of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been in the industry for almost 15 years, Right been used for 40 years. One of them yeah, I've been. I've been in the industry for almost 15 years, right, and one of my my. My very first job out there was working with cho cells, and then my next one was working with hdk cells, and then I was working with e coli right these are. This is very standard technology okay but it was framed as brand new technology okay very scared yeah and I think if I hadn't already been in the industry I would have been scared.
Speaker 3:I've been like what's going in my body? I don't understand right, okay but I was one of the first people out there like get it in my arm. I know what this is. I've done this before okay, interesting.
Speaker 2:And what did the? What did the hk sell? Hk cell h. Sorry, what did that hgk, what did that cell make like? What did it make that made it a vaccine? Like what was the big molecule that it was making?
Speaker 3:so what it was making was it was making basically a um, a vaccine okay, it was making a vaccine right so it was. It was growing up and making a vaccine and that vaccine was attaching to basically attached to virus. Now I want you to understand I do not understand, um the way that uh adenoviruses work quite as well as I do monoclonal antibodies, so I don't want to give you super incorrect information okay, sure so I I understand the manufacturing process a little bit better than I do.
Speaker 3:the science behind you know viruses, so I don't want to give you super wrong information.
Speaker 2:It made the thing your body had an immune response to, to protect you.
Speaker 3:Yes, what it was doing was producing the spike proteins that would be going into your body.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And the spike proteins are kind of like if you were fighting a fork monster, then you would be getting two forks into your body. So your body would recognize that you were going to be fighting a fork monster and it would make your body feel a little bit funky and you'd be like, oh, what's that? And then the next time you get one well, this is the J and J vaccine. So you'd be in the forks and your body would put up a little sign that says fight fork monster.
Speaker 2:I love this analogy.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I saw it on my Tik TOK oh okay, oh, okay. It's brilliant, but fighting fork monster, and then when you see the fork monster, you already know what the fork looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So that you can then fight the fork monster.
Speaker 2:so that you can then fight the fork monster.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it and so, yes, you now have two little and the prongs kind of hurt a little bit, which is why you don't feel super good. I saw that on a TikTok and I was like that's the most perfect analogy ever. You're fighting a fork monster, so you get stuck with two forks.
Speaker 2:I love it, so you might find this funny. It's a little bit of silly humor. Um, the first vaccine that was approved in canada was the astrazeneca vaccine, which was later discontinued, um, as it did cause enough adverse effects. They, they, they stopped it, I believe. Um, uh, but I got the astrazeneca, and then the next two I got were the moderna and the Pfizer, which were different, yeah, and I was just so saddened that the JJ didn't come to Canada because I wanted to collect all of the different vaccines in my body Like Thanos. I just was like collecting one, like a gem on my my infinity gauntlet, and I was like, yes, I have the AstraZeneca. And I was like, yes, I just felt more powerful with each different vaccine I got, so it didn't come to care.
Speaker 2:I only got moderna um but I mean, all joking aside like we're on social media and whenever we post about vaccines, um, you know there are people who are will will come out of the woodwork. We're a science account but the people who follow us generally are you're a fairly pro vaccine, right, because it's based in science. But anytime we talk about vaccines, definitely folks come out of the woodwork that are very upset about it and their challenge are what we say. So this that's my that, why I was kind of framing it this way Like the amount of noise about how the COVID vaccines were manufactured so quickly it's out there. That's one of the things that we hear when we post. It's good to hear that the JJ1 was. Like it's interesting to hear that it was made from a previous cell line that was used for decades. When they decided to run that through clinical trials, like do you feel that was rushed? Like as somebody who was in manufacturing, because that's a big part after you get it good enough to start giving to folks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely One of the. I absolutely do not think it was rushed.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And the reason why I said that is because I have also worked in clinical trials, so my last two jobs were specifically in clinical trials.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:And one of the ways that I was and I was following the clinical trials very, very, very rigorously, because I take care of my brother and he's disabled and one of the things I wanted to know was he's in, he's in a group home, should I give him the vaccine? And so I followed the clinical trials very closely and I believe that they took great care in them and they also do what's called fast tracking. Fast tracking is a very normal thing. That happens with extremely high need vaccines and immunotherapeutics and therapeutics in general. And the reason why I know about fast tracking is remember when I went let's go back, reel ourselves back in the conversation and I told you about my first job when I was working on the stage three clinical trials for Keytruda.
Speaker 3:Now, that was also fast tracked. So 15 years ago, when I was working on my very first job, it was a monoclonal antibody immunotherapeutic. It was so successful as an immunotherapeutic for cancer that they skipped over some clinical trials to get it right to stage three. You've never heard of that. Right, you didn't know that was going on.
Speaker 2:I never heard of it. Right, you didn't know that was going on.
Speaker 3:I never heard of it before, ever no, yeah, and the reason why was because it wasn't something that everybody knew about, but the government knew about it. The government knew about this medication. They saw the results. They said the american people need to have this, we need to have this right now, and skipped over clinical trials for it. The reason why we heard about COVID and the COVID drugs was because they were like this is an emergency for the people. We need to get this out right now.
Speaker 3:So the exact same thing that happened to me 15 years ago with a drug that was for cancer is now happening for a pandemic drug we just don't know, and probably many other drugs that I don't know about. So this is there's precedent for this happening. We just don't know about it because it's happening on such a big scale, as opposed to a big scale with cancer patients. So anybody, and anybody who's has a loved one with cancer, you're going to sit down and you're going to hear a doctor say to you we're going to put give them a PD one test. That's the test before they give you an immunotherapeutic with a PD one receptor, and that's the drug that was fast-tracked back in 2013. So it was fast-tracked and now it is commercially available everywhere. So they knew it was safe. They did the initial tests on it. They did the level one test. They just skipped over level two because they knew it was too important for people.
Speaker 2:Can you explain level two? This is not an area I'm I'm great at.
Speaker 3:So basically, what happens with um, with tests, and this is it. And I don't fully understand fast tracking as well as I would like Um. But basically let me explain to you the different clinical levels. So level one is dosing yeah, they, they already know it's not lethal. Yeah, they already know it's not lethal. There's no questions about that. Level one is dosing where they go. Okay, we need to sit down and figure out what the dose is going to be. That's not going to make you sick.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:We have a general idea of what it looks like for people. We want to give you a dose between X and Y and Z and Y, to make sure that you're going to feel well and not have too much. And it's not. It's never enough to make you die, it's never enough to make you super sick, it's just getting that final amount to where it needs to be. So it's usually between like a very small threshold and then the second dose. The second, the clinical trial two, is just narrowing that in a little bit more, and then clinical trial three is a larger. Is the larger dosage from there? That's my understanding of it. Um, and I hope I'm not making myself look like a moron, I'm skipping because I'm now incredibly nervous, I'm like sweating as I'm like I hope I'm explaining clinical trials in a way that's simple enough and yet correct enough.
Speaker 2:The two is dialing down the doses, potentially Dialing it in.
Speaker 3:And clinical trial two is dialing up the people dialing down the dosage, potentially Dialing it in. And clinical trial two is dialing up the people dialing down the dosage. But really when you get into clinical trials one after clinical trial one, you really know what your dosage is. And clinical trial two is just getting out any final kinks. And then clinical trial three is just let's just move on and make sure that everyone can get what they need and any final questions you might have about minor side effects and they're all minor at that point.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm Outside of like some very rare, very, very, you know, rare side effects which I do want to acknowledge do happen, very rare but they do. Yeah, just like with any medication. I'm sure those other things like cancer medications, have horrific side effects with some people. Yeah, people have allergic reactions to dermatological injections, I'm assuming as well. Yeah, people have side effects to dermatological injections I'm assuming as well.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, people have. People have side effects to many, many things and I think that, um, not acknowledging that is is incorrect.
Speaker 3:But it's also important to note that not taking a vaccine for an extremely deadly medication extremely deadly illness is not, particularly when it comes to the extremely vulnerable who need it and in that case, when it came to down to it, I took my brother, who is extremely vulnerable and lives in a group home, and got him vaccinated, because when I didn't, when I waited and didn't take him vaccinated right away, he got COVID and he was very sick and he was very miserable and didn't understand what was going on. And the moment he got I didn't wait very long, I was just waiting to get in line to get him vaccinated and then we got him vaccinated and he hasn't had COVID since.
Speaker 2:Lucky him, yeah, but that's good, I mean we've been working very hard to make sure he doesn't get back open again well, I mean that that's a great explanation and, um, my my understanding, my understanding is a little bit, uh, more educated now, which is, which is great. It's a. It's a very touchy subject, right, and and I wish, wish it wasn't like pre COVID the amount of people I would talk to about the you know, childhood vaccines and things like that around where I live. It's just like, oh yeah, get, get your kids vaccinated, and now it's, it's a, it's a different ball of wax, I think. So it's always good to have folks like you talk about the monoclonal antibodies being just something that's been around for 40 years, like it's been around for a long time.
Speaker 3:So I just, I just remember, you know, when I was a kid, my dad had a poster of Elvis Presley getting his polio vaccine and you know I he passed away in 20, 2016. And I just would like to hope that my dad would still have gotten vaccinated because, you know, he was very proud of Elvis Presley getting his polio vaccine, and I think that we should all remember that that was part of being, you know, a good part of your country and a good part of protecting yourself. No matter where you're from, no matter what, you know who you are you need to protect others around you and it's okay if you're scared and it's okay if you don't feel comfortable, but you need to remember to ask people and you know I am I, as a scientist, will always answer questions if anybody has them, as long as they're asked in good faith. You know, I really want to help people out and I really want to understand An Airbnb host. I was in the South of America. I really want to help people out and I really want to understand an Airbnb host I was in the South of America, I was over in Tennessee who was truly confused and she was truly scared and she didn't understand what's going on and I sat down with her and I tried and I explained to her the manufacturing process, because that was what she didn't understand and that's what I'm very strong in is the manufacturing process.
Speaker 3:I explained to her how we make medicine and she felt more confident. She ended up being vaccinated and we're still in contact with the station.
Speaker 1:She sends me a.
Speaker 3:Christmas card every year. It's important that I think that we, as scientists, talk to people in good faith.
Speaker 3:We give people a chance to understand what's going on and we talk to each other like people. If we all get mad at each other, then I think that we'll miss out the chance to educate each other and be better citizens to each other, and I think that people who are confused and scared, you know, ask in good faith I don't understand, I want. I want to understand and we can be better friends. I've talked to a lot of people in the last couple of years who were just genuinely, genuinely confused and didn't understand, and it's helped them a lot.
Speaker 2:I love that. Um, folks who follow Bunsen and Beaker uh know, or maybe they don't know, but I know like well, chris obviously knows my grandmother on my dad's side. She got polio. She got polio and contracted it the year after the vaccine was made available. They were rolling it out and you know inoculating people. Vaccine was made available, they were rolling it out and you know inoculating people and she lost the ability to walk. She had a bunch of like post-polio stuff. So like I only knew my grandmother as somebody who got polio and was paralyzed from the waist down. So she was her lesson as your dad's lesson the lesson with Elvis Presley really hits home because that was her lesson to all of us, which she's like you know, like I could have, I didn't have the chance to get vaccinated and looks like, look what happened to me. So yeah, so that's folks, folks who follow us, probably know that story.
Speaker 2:So I have one more question and we'll take some speaker speaker request folks who maybe have some questions for you. We do, we do take some uh speaker speaker request folks who maybe have some questions for you. We do, we do have some people requesting. You'll just have to wait a second. We're going to take a little turn um from manufacturing of molecules to the fact that you're an author? Um, you write books. Could you? Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, in my spare time, I, in my spare time, I'm a speculative mystery and horror author. I have been featured in 10 literary magazines and I just had my just today on my Twitter my ex, my ex, you can't dead name Twitter I just posted my story Ag. My story, agreeable demeanor, was just featured in the healy review. Okay, um, I'm also trying to. I'm querying a novel right now. I'm very excited about that. But, yeah, I write. I write mystery, I write horror. Um, I love writing. It's very exciting. I, I feel like we should all have a, a hobby. That's not just science. We should all try to get ourselves out there and, you know, enjoy life. Um, but I, I love to write. I like to put a little bit of science fiction in everything that I'm writing I love it.
Speaker 2:So. Horror and science fiction, so like, like advanced technology and like gremlins type things like. What can you give us? Can you give us a synopsis of one of your, one of your pieces of writing? I'm just very curious.
Speaker 3:Well, my most recent piece of writing is called agreeable demeanor. I'm not going to tell you too much about it, but I have a. It takes place in 1941. And there is a man who, every time he asks a question, your answer always has to be yes.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's some Stephen King stuff right there, I love it.
Speaker 3:That story is available on MyX right now under Hulie Reviews X, and you can find the link on MyX Okay.
Speaker 2:Chris or I in the back end will work to get some of that stuff up in the nest on audio for folks to take a look at. Um, mj, are you okay taking a few questions from our audience? Chris and I will moderate that and if you're listening live, you can type your question in um and we'll uh, we'll read it to MJ if it's appropriate. And same thing rules go for folks on Twitter, remember we're. We're here to discuss what our guests knows about, so keep your questions in good faith. I know you will, and if we don't know who you are and we check your account and it looks like not a great mix, you may not come up to speak. So just a heads up there. Chris, are you okay bringing?
Speaker 1:some folks up to speak on on Twitter. Yes, I sure am Okay perfect, okay, perfect and anything. Anything you'd like to mention, chris, go ahead, mj I'm just very much enjoying this discussion and I'm learning a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like this mj, I do have to. I I have learned so much. I'm just, I feel, you know, like there's so much to science and I thought I had a handle on some of this and then I just realized I know nothing. So I'm glad you're here talking to us, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, most days I feel like three raccoons in a trench coat. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:OK, so I found your hourly review. Oh shoot, I'm on my other phone. Hmm. Well, Chris, go ahead. You can organize the speakers and then I'll who's who's first. I'll get this up in the nest.
Speaker 1:Bez has their hand up, so we'll go to Bez first.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:And Liz, and then Tracy.
Speaker 4:Perfect. Well, hello, always nice when I can get a chance to join one of your spaces here. Yeah, hey, hope you're doing well. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm uh checking in from walmart, so let me go into an aisle so people don't think I'm talking to myself, um, but um, I know people like who are you talking to? Well, polio? So I do have a question, because I'm a Rotarian and our signature project is polio and you know we constantly struggle with, you know, afghanistan and Pakistan. It's very dangerous to be a polio worker in those countries. You could lose your life. But Rotary, and maybe you can explain this to me, when you supposedly eradicate polio in any region of the country, it's not declared polio free for three years. Could you tell me about the thinking behind that three-year waiting period? Why is that? Could you tell me about the thinking behind that three-year waiting period?
Speaker 3:Why is that? I do not know the answer to that question.
Speaker 2:I am so sorry, that's a great question, bez.
Speaker 4:I want to know too. I've always wondered, as a Rotarian, when you know it's like, why is it three years, and I know they have?
Speaker 3:to monitor and there's no further cropping up of the virus. But I have to say I'm not a virologist, so that is outside of my wheelhouse. However, I do have a friend who is a virologist, so I will find out and I will pass the information on to Jason.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:Can I ask a really quick question behind that one? Go ahead, beth. Okay, so it was in the news about a year ago or so that they found polio in the sewer or there was an actual person and they actually brought him or her to a hospital, but I didn't hear much after that. Do you know anything behind that story? Um, where was the person? Found bez it was in the state of new york, but I believe they had come in from another country. But I I don't know the whole story.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing something about this too. I'm not. I can't give you details.
Speaker 3:I don't know if MJ can, but no, I remember hearing about it, but I don't remember hearing anything about it since. So if they did bring someone in, they were contained.
Speaker 2:I just don't know what happened afterwards. I'm trying to remember. I think they came from London Bez, that's my understanding and then from London they came from somewhere else, like it was like a ping pong flight, I forget where. I'm pretty sure they came from London, if I'm remembering. I think I was looking at covering that on my podcast about like it was a year and a half ago, a while ago, yeah, that's the best I can do. That's the best I can do.
Speaker 4:Well, one of the worthiest projects you could ever donate to is the End Polio Plus project and I think Bill Gates Foundation, bill Melinda Gates Foundation, matches it, I think $2 for every dollar. So that rotary raises. So it's a worthy cause. So thank you for your time.
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks, bez. Our whole family is all on board eradicating polio. We have a very personal experience with polio as my grandmother. She had polio, um and post polio, uh syndrome, which was awful. So, yeah, it's not not the greatest disease, that's for sure. Bez, thanks for your question. Uh, we're gonna go to a live question from madison and then we'll go to back to audio so I can put this up on the screen with our slick technology. Mj, can you see the question there? I can't. Isn't that cool? I just love stream yard. You know, shout out to stream yard. If you're listening, please sponsor us. We love you guys. Um, are the new brewing tanks made of plastic? Uh, do you worry they may change things with plastic contamination, or are they used once? And then, of course, there's some really nice words. Thank you, mj, for all you do. Your enthusiasm is awesome. I now understand how these are made. So thanks, madison. Go ahead, mj.
Speaker 3:First of all, thank you so much for bringing up plastic contamination, because it's actually a real thing. You can actually, if you have something living in plastic for too long, you can actually have what's called leachables leach into the um from the plastic, which is one of the reasons why something very cool that we do with your medicine is we have them stored in warehouses for years. We'll literally one of the reasons why it takes so long to get medicine out is we'll take them, we'll make them and we'll stick them in a warehouse for 24 months and not do anything with them, and then we'll bring them out and we'll test them to see if anything is wrong with them. Has there been any leachables? Has there been anything wrong with them? Are they good?
Speaker 3:That's where your expiration dates on your medicine comes from, because that's where. Has there been any leachables in them? Have your plastic gone off on them? Are they still good? Are they still viable? And that's why medicine takes so gosh darn long to come out. And that's so. That's pretty cool, but absolutely not because the brewing tanks are only used once, not because the brewing tanks are only used once they're used. Once they're crushed, they're thrown out.
Speaker 5:Whoa.
Speaker 3:Yep Used once. Wow, they're stuck in a giant vat that literally shrinks them down and completely sterilizes them and makes them into nothingness before they're thrown away. Completely eliminates all bio waste and then we throw them away are you talking about?
Speaker 2:the stainless steel tanks are used once no, the plastic, one, oh the plastic ones. I was like oh, oh. I was like that's all, that's expensive.
Speaker 3:No, no, the no. The brewing she was asking her the brewing tanks made of plastic.
Speaker 4:Gotcha Okay.
Speaker 3:Change things with plastic contamination, and that's why I was mentioning the leachables. I, I genuinely did not believe in leachables. I would have a cup of water and I would let it sit there for six months and I would take a drink out of it. But it is absolutely true. Leachables are 100% of the thing. So if you have a cup of water sitting in your car for six months, please don't drink it. It's totally got leachables in it. But um, yeah, we we do that with medication. We let it sit in a warehouse and check it every couple of months to make sure that there's nothing wrong with it and if there is boom, there's your expiration date.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, Chris, food safety. Donna Craig would be so thrilled that our manufacturing specialist is talking about expiry dates and to pay attention to them. She's our food safety expert and she's like don't eat stuff after the expiry date. It's on there for a reason, and you would say the same thing for medications as well.
Speaker 3:It's on there for a reason I love it, madison.
Speaker 2:I hope that answers your question. We'll go back, bez. Your hand is up, go ahead, and then we'll go to Tracy.
Speaker 4:I so something that I've been hearing and this We'll go back. Bez, your hand is up, Go ahead, and then we'll go to Tracy. So something that I've been hearing from people in my community that there's a shortage on certain ADHD medication for patients that need that medication and I figured, since that might be in the manufacturing realm, could you speak to that a little bit?
Speaker 3:That's not in my wheelhouse, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Okay. You got great questions today, buddy.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry, okay, well, that's all I have. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more on. I mean, you're the drugs that you you're talking about. That are more medicines and they're, rather than the ADHD things. So true, yeah, I'm curious. Actually, now I'm not. I'm sure that's probably in the news when I go to do some research for the podcast. So you got me something to think about, bez, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I have something to ask oh.
Speaker 2:OK, chris.
Speaker 1:So I saw. I don't know whether it was on TikTok ask oh okay, chris. So I saw.
Speaker 4:I don't know, whether it was on.
Speaker 1:TikTok or a piece of social media.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:But someone said oh, somebody's talking. Yeah Well, I read it and I wasn't sure. It said it's still okay to take your old medication. It just loses potency over time. So if you have Tylenol, it just is still okay Tylenol, but it's less potent. So is that true or definitely false?
Speaker 3:I mean it's okay to eat your hot dog six months after the expiration date. It's just no good anymore. So I mean, yeah, I mean I wouldn't six months after the expiration date. It's just no good anymore. So I mean, yeah, I mean I wouldn't, and I make them. So that's, take that as you will. I don't take, I don't eat, I don't take expired medication okay but that's the kind of.
Speaker 3:That's the kind of stuff. That's Tylenol, and Tylenol is a very mild medication. The medications I make are like very different kinds of medication and you wouldn't want to take an injectable medication that's six months expired or like you know. You wouldn't want to take a hello there and you wouldn't want to take a medication that is significantly expired because its molecule might change, it might develop mold, it might get a porous. You know something inside of it. It might like. There's reasons why you can be guaranteed it's safe for six months but you don't know what's gotten inside of there. For six months you know it's good. After that, you know what's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but thank you for sharing that, because there is misinformation out there and we see things on social media and people without further knowledge or understanding tend to believe things. So thank you for sharing that, yeah.
Speaker 3:I always cover. I think the oldie Tylenol is like. That's a trip I don't want to take.
Speaker 2:It might be a trip, depending on what's growing on that Tylenol. Get some funky mushrooms on there. You'll get rid of your headache and have a fun time while you're at it. Um okay, tracy, tracy, go ahead. You've been very patient. Um, go ahead. Thanks, tracy okay, um.
Speaker 5:So I just wanted to like you were talking about, um, biologics. I just want to make a quick point with that. A lot of times with like biologics, it's not like if you want Humira, it's not like as simple as just like bringing it up with your doctor. You're going to have to go through like step therapy, so you're going to have to fail different medications before you get to Humira. You get to Humira. That's like one thing with like American, like how they advertise medications, like they make it seem like, oh, just talk to your doctor and you can get this. But you do have to go through different steps and they are geared for specific patients, diseases, so you'll have to like fail these medications before you can get to your biologic that you need yeah, um, real pain, because humira is such a very, very good medication and I know my husband had to go through accutane and then he had to go through clindamycin.
Speaker 3:He had to go through all those other medications to get to humira, but once he got on humira it cleared everything up like that. It was awesome. So if you're trying to get to humira but once he got on humira it cleared everything up like that, it was awesome. So if you're trying to get on humira yourself, let me tell you it's worth the pain in the butt to get to it.
Speaker 5:It's an awesome medication yeah, um, yeah, it was more like. You know, just a point of like, sorry, how hard these drugs are to get. You know, they just make it seem like it's a lot easier than it actually is. Um, and then I just wanted to know if you have a pet story for us tracy always asks a pet story.
Speaker 2:Tracy, if you're watching live. Um a kitty cat just jumped up into MJ's lap, which is super sweet. Go ahead, mj.
Speaker 3:So this is Toph Toph. Toph is blind, just like the Avatar the Last Airbender character, and she weighs about 1,000 pounds. She's our Kim Kardashian kitty. She's got a big backside. She is very, very sweet. She is very, very sweet. She's very, very loving. She's immensely needy. She's been waiting very patiently to come up into my lap so I was like fine, you can get into my lap now. She's extremely loving. Her brother is sitting over with my husband over there. His name is Timothy and the two of them are our little science kitties and they are absolutely wonderful. They're the nicest cats you will ever meet. They love being in people's laps. They love being with people. They love to be petted she loves to chomp on fingers Just absolutely the most divine little creatures. I course have the nicest cats. Sorry to everybody else who owns cats mine are the nicest I love it.
Speaker 2:Uh, and could you say the name again? I think I misheard it when you said toff toff, okay, I thought. I thought I said with it was taught. So toff, there you go um. Like that is a very popular cartoon, I know, know, or anime Avatar, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, avatar, the Last Airbender.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, she's the blind little earthbender. There you go, tracy.
Speaker 5:If you got a chance on live MJ's, got Toph right now. Very cute. I also have a cat on my lap, who is the best boy in the world.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'd say that about Ginger. I don't know if Ginger, our cat, is the best girl in the world. What do you?
Speaker 1:think, chris, she was in the garage, jason.
Speaker 2:Oh, she's in the garage. How'd she get in there, she?
Speaker 1:was. I don't know. She was in the garage, so we're very lucky she didn't get out oh man remember I said, hey, I haven't seen ginger, and you said, oh, she'll be around. Well, she was in the garage and beaker was barking at the door. And then I went to get, uh, open the door to the garage because that's weird and ginger came in the house I tell you the beaker and that cat, beaker and ginger, they, they are such frenemies.
Speaker 2:But beaker will die for that cat. I guarantee, guarantee you she would. She would fight monsters to save that cat.
Speaker 1:She would, would she fight fork monsters?
Speaker 2:So fork monsters? I don't know, that's the question, I don't know. Okay, it looks like we are all done with our speakers and it's the top of the hour. We have no more questions. Oh, there's one more. I'm not sure if you can answer this one, but I will. I'll respect the question. It's from. Don don says it might be a silly question and it's not actually. Um, how do drugs get those tongue twisty names? Who names drugs?
Speaker 3:oh, that is a very good question, and you know what? That's one of the things I do know. Oh, my goodness, girl, down you go. One of the things I do know I don't know everything about naming of drugs. I know the end of the way that some drugs are named is like with MABS monoclonal antibodies will always be the end of the name of a drug Like Pemzomiruzumab is the end, but that's all I know. I don't know how they name drugs. That is something that I don't know, but I would love to learn. So I'm going to find out, because I actually know someone who names drugs. So I'm going to find out how that is done. How are drugs named?
Speaker 2:Some of them. You know what. I could answer a little bit of that don. If it's an organic molecule, from my chemistry it's. It's how the. If it's a simple organic molecule, not a giant you know molecule like what don is or, sorry, what mj is talking about, it's. It's generally named with the organic chemistry um naming system as best as possible, and it gets weird. I love teaching that to kids because they think I'm making stuff up every day. But it's a really fun unit in chemistry 30. And we're. I'm starting that in a couple of weeks with my, my chem students.
Speaker 3:So well, that's so cool. I didn't. I didn't know that I I've never learned how drugs were named.
Speaker 2:Not all of them, right, not all of them. But like, if they've got like a bunch of numbers and methyl ethyls in there, benzenes and things like that, it's probably an organic molecule. That's so cool. Sometimes they just give up and they give it a common name, right?
Speaker 3:Sometimes they just give up and they give it a common name, right? Yeah, there's always the commercial name for them, because they always come up like Keytruda or Viagra. Like this is our cool name. We're not a regular drug, we're a cool drug.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then they have their official name.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I don't know how they get that official name. So I'm going to find out, and I know who would know. Meg would know.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, so, mj, at any time you give us those answers, we'll put them into, like probably the chat, like the if those of you who had questions, any of the answers that we didn't get to, I can put it in the posting that goes with the recording on Twitter. So that's because then it'll be easily accessible and related to the show. And, MJ, thanks for being our guest today. Where can people find you on social media? Somewhere, like what's your handle?
Speaker 3:Oh, so my handle is MJ Huntsgood, that's H U N T S G O O D, and I'm available on x and instagram awesome.
Speaker 2:So if you're listening on instagram and there's a whole schwack of you that are, uh, give mj a follow. And for folks who are here for the show today on twitter live video, um and twitter or x, um, give mj a follow. Sorry, facebook people, uh, but you can. You can come to the dark side and and uh, come back. To come back to Twitter X to follow MJ, but you do have. You do have a website.
Speaker 3:I do have a Facebook, but I don't. I'm uh, my, my Facebook is MJ Huntsgood author, but it's not super active. But please feel free to follow me there. Mj Huntsgood author.
Speaker 2:And mjhuntsgoodcom is your website as well, so you can get more information there Correct, thank you. Okay, thanks so much for being our guest tonight. This was absolutely educational, interesting, fascinating, and we so appreciate your enthusiasm and giving us that information.
Speaker 3:Thank you so so much. This was so much fun.
Speaker 2:Oh yay, that's great.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:All right, we're going to do some wrap up music just for, kind of the closing of the episode and um, and then Chris and I just have a couple information items. You're welcome to stay or go, it's up to you, mj.
Speaker 3:I'll stay, because I actually got a question for you after this.
Speaker 2:Oh, perfect, okay, hey, thanks for coming to science chat Everybody. Mj Huntsgood was our guest today. Chris, did you? Did you learn something?
Speaker 1:I did. I want to get that dermatology injection for my skin.
Speaker 2:Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1:called. What is it?
Speaker 2:called again Skin.
Speaker 1:I don't know for my skin.
Speaker 2:Okay, what is it called? What is it called again Skin skin.
Speaker 3:Gova, what Humira.
Speaker 2:Humira, I was being sarcastic. There we go. Um, so we actually have another side chat next week. Remember I said we will have side chat as I can book science science guests. We have a NASA scientist next Tuesday that studies climate change, but specifically carbon capture, which is absolutely fascinating. So that will be our science guest next Tuesday for Science Chat. And, of course, we would love to see you on Saturday for Pet Chat. Same time, same place. It's a hoot. Live video everywhere and also on audio.
Speaker 1:That's right Now when you say same time, it's Saturday at 6.
Speaker 5:Yeah, not at 7.
Speaker 1:Because, this show starts at 7.
Speaker 2:Right, I know, but Pet Chat's always at 6. You're right, that was confusing. Pet Chat is at 6.
Speaker 1:It was a little bit confusing because some people might have joined tonight for the very first time. Oh, that's, true, I thought, oh, I'll join at 7. And you know what? They would have missed the show.
Speaker 2:Well, we got 1,000 people between Instagram and Facebook, twitter, so I did screw up. Pet Chat is at 6 pm Mountain, 8 pm Eastern, every Saturday, unless we have Comic-Con, which we had last weekend. And then Science Chat is on a case-by-case basis at 7 pm Mountain Time, 9 pm Eastern.
Speaker 1:Tuesdays. Was that okay, Chris? That was fantastic. I just was clarifying for the new listeners to our show. And we love all you listeners and we'd love to have you at our side. Chats, but then also pet chats, where we share the stories of the shenanigans of the week, like Ginger being in the garage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ginger. Okay, thanks everybody, All right. Okay, mj, did you want to ask this off the air or on air? I can just start quitting everything.