Season 2 Episode 11: Icy Oceans in Space and Dr. Patricia Corbett with the Middle Island Penguin Project!

This week's podcast has such a fun mixed bag!  In science news we talk about the possibility (pawsibility? HA!) of an slushy ocean on the dwarf planet Pluto!  In Dog Science we have some stinky research about....poo and why dogs might eat it!  Our expert guest is Dr. Patricia Corbett who is the director of The Middle Island Penguin Project- a wholesome and adorable biological conservation effort that has trained guardian dogs to protect the little penguins of Middle Island in Australia!  A movie was made about the project called "Oddball"- check the trailer below!
 
OMG SO GOOD AND CUTE!

Middle Island Project on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/WboolPenguins

Patricia Corbett on Twitter
@DrTrishCorbett

Middle Island Website:
http://www.warrnamboolpenguins.com.au/

Middle Island on Facebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7AV2ZYlxvI

Oddball Movie Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7AV2ZYlxvI

Bunsen on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/bunsenbernerbmd
Bunsen on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/bunsenberner.bmd/
InstaBunsen
https://www.instagram.com/bunsenberner.bmd/?hl=en
Bunsen Merch!
https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/bunsen-berner

Genius Lab Gear for 10% link!-
10% off science dog bandanas, science stickers and science Pocket tools
https://t.co/UIxKJ1uX8J?amp=1

Transcript

spk_0:   0:08
Hello, science enthusiasts. My name is Jason Ziolkowski and your host. I'm a high school chemistry teacher, but you probably know our dog Bunsen burner. He's the Twitter science dog. This show takes what's best about Benson's account, the science of empathy found there and spends it into podcast. For every week you'll learn some new science in her science news section. We'll also talk about some really interesting dog or pet science every week. There's an amazing expert that has interviewed, and we get to learn so much from them, and we end the podcast with stories and trivia. This is the science podcast. It's another week where we're all stuck inside except for those really brave first responders and our nurses and doctors and people keeping our country's moving. My oldest son works at a grocery store, and he shows up every day, you know, moving groceries for people that need to eat. I'll burner right now is still on the same kind of lock down. We're supposed to stay at home. Social gatherings are over. I'm still going into work to teach, but about 40 to 50% of our staff are working from home. Um, so I go into the school and it's a ghost town anyway, so I rarely see my other colleagues except when we have long conversations more than three or four meters apart. Chris is working from home. She's decided to work from home and teach kids online from home. And it's been going pretty good because Bunsen has had humans around all the time. And he knows when she's talking to her kids because he comes in to say hi, cause he gets treats and he gets to put on a little show. So they're really enjoying having Bunce and pop into their lessons, which I think is adorable. I think Adam is getting a little stir crazy. He's been stuck inside. No, this is what just about going into Week four of Locked Down so I could just imagine all the kids and the teenagers and especially the older kids that I teach that are just getting a little stir crazy. But that's how we flatten the curve. We make sure that not everybody gets sick at the same time in overwhelms our health care system. This week on the science podcast, we're gonna take a look at some space science who Space science and in dog science. We're gonna talk about something kind of gross. But I found an article that explains maybe white dogs eat poo because Bunsen definitely. If he has the chance to eat wild animal poo, he's gonna take it. Our guest this week is Dr Patricia Corbett, who is one of the organizers of this amazing thing called the Middle Island Penguin Project, where guardian dogs have been trained to protect penguins. It's an amazing story. I can't wait to share it with you guys. Hey, Bunsen, why do penguins have to carry fish in their beaks? It's

spk_1:   2:58
because they don't got any

spk_0:   2:59
pockets. Okay, that was terrible. All right, on with the show because there's no time like science time this weekend. Science news. Let's take a little look at a

spk_1:   3:14
little itty bitty planet.

spk_0:   3:16
Well, it's not really planning anymore. That's right. We're gonna be talking about Fluto and Ploo toe. It appears based on the evidence that's just come out, has a subsurface ocean, and that ocean is ancient and super deep. If you were following the new horizons, a little probe that NASA sent out with glee and joy when It's screened by Ploo toe and took pictures of ploo toe and it came back. You were probably just astounded his eye at what Pluta looked like. Um, had a little heart on it. Of course, that hard isn't hard. It was kind of an optical illusion. But it was just this picture of this tiny rock way out in the middle of outer space that I had dreamed about since I was a kid because we couldn't take pictures of it. It was a fuzzy blur, the best that we could get because it was really dark out there and it was really small. It was really cool. Having pictures of it and New Horizons has given us even more data about ploo toe. So if Pluto's so far away from the sun, how could it possibly have an ocean? While the data seems to suggest that this dwarf planet has an underground ocean that formed 4.5 billion years ago and that ocean may surround and actually interact with the corps and be kind of like ah, slurry, there may actually be liquidy water based on radioactive decay heating it up. And if this is true, if this was mind blowing if ploo toe can have an ocean on it and most of it's probably frozen. But if there is an ocean on Ploo toe, that means all of those little dwarf planets that are in the Keiper belt thousands of them innumerable worlds could also have liquidy water at their core. And that transforms what we think about the Keiper Belt. A Dean Dentyne of Purdue University was just astounded by this. How how did this evidence come about? Well, it came from the pictures as New Horizon took all that data from Ploo toe when it screamed by in the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Texas. A bunch of people who analyzed the data have given their findings, and we have to have a little bit of a framework first. So there's two possibilities. The first possibility is that Ploo toe had a cold start, so any water on Pluto's was frozen immediately and then melted a bit from the the heat from decaying radioactive elements in the planet's core. And then it froze again. Over time, the people crunching the numbers considered that as a possible, you know, history for Ploo toe. If Plato had this cold start, any of the water would be frozen before melting and then frozen again. And that would give you cracks and ripples across the icy shell of Pluto's surface as the ice melted and then and then expanded and then re froze so you'd get all these rippling effects and then contracting would make the ice crumple into a bunch of mountains, and expanding would make the ice create giant cracks. So that's one idea. Did the data show that Well, let's take a look at the other idea that Plato had a warm start, that the water was liquid for most of Pluto's existence. And in that case, as it froze, the surface would only show cracks from the sea sea, sea ice expanding as it froze so you wouldn't have this freeze thaw freeze effect. It would just slowly freeze in. That would be the end of it. And that's what the astronomers found when they looked at the images. They found that there was on Lee cracks from sea ice expanding, so this was really interesting. That means that Pluto's started off worm hard to wrap your head around right in a totally separate study that also gives evidence to this. Another team of researchers looked at the impact formed from a massive strike on Ploo toe like in the heart shape he's in. And so when when New Horizons flew by, took a look at where this you know. The strike occurred and they saw lines on Pluto's surface on the exact opposite side of the globe from where this strike impact occurred. It's almost like, you know, you can think of you punching Ploo toe bam and the shock waves going through the planet. It focused them like a lens, and that's what that's what happened. The internal structure of Pluto's would have controlled how the shockwave shuttered through the planet. Now they looked at the cracks on the surface ice ice, and they gave them clues to the thickness. Also because based on that strike, what would you see on the other side? So this is kind of this totally beyond my knowledge. But they were able to run simulations about how thick the ice was and what the Corps chemical makeup of the planet was, and they got a really fun answer. So say the scientists, right to explain the lines on the dwarf planet. Not only would PLO to plutonium a large ocean right, not only with the ocean be enormous 150 kilometers arm or in thickness, but the core would also have to contain serpent time or some other rock that the water would interact with. This is evidence that you'd have a soggy core and how if you had a soggy core, that means there's water there that life could grab ahold of. So the researchers thought that was a Superfund answer, Um, and that it just gives you them way more to think about. And it leads to war like a really fun hypothesis that a future Ploo toe Asian could test. It is mind blowing to think that PLOO toe way out there in the darkness of space could be potentially habitable. And that means of Ploo toe has those same kind of what structures then many other bodies in the Kuiper Belt would also be habitable. So if Puto is this big frozen ocean world and there's all of these other bodies out in the Kuiper Belt, you know, you could just extrapolate to that that many of them also could be ocean worlds. Just frozen with a little lady Betty soggy core. Anyways, with everything that's happening on Earth, sometimes it's fun. Toe, look to the sky and think about space that science news for this week this weekend. Dog science. We're going to take a look at who? Oh, man. Yeah. We're gonna take a look at some number two science. So where did I get this information? Well, I got it from a pretty crappy study. Uh, just kidding. There's lots of puns that I could throw it to you. But it comes from a study done by the Department of Anatomy, physiology and cell biology in the School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of California. And they took a look at one new idea why dogs eat poo. Now, when we were looking to get a breeze Mountain dog and we stopped at a breeder and we didn't ultimately go with them. But we got we stopped them just to get more information about the Bernese mountain dog. And we did. We were We were treated really well. We were given a whole bunch of good no data points about them. One of the things the breeder said, You have to watch for is they're known to eat poo, and that terrified Chris and I because that's disgusting. We've never had a dog that eats poo. And when little Bunsen was picked out by us, we were super careful to make sure that he was not around poo when he did his number two and he was actually really quick to potty train. I think he was party trained in about four or five days. Um, he's smart little dog. Oh, but as soon as he does number two, we picked it up and got it out of there, so there wasn't a chance for him to develop any habits. And when he was as a puppy in a bit older and unleash, we made sure that there was no number two around them. We didn't let him get into any of that. Now. Things have changed a bit because I take him off leash. Now he's safe. He's a big dog. I don't have to worry. I mean, he obviously, if you got into it with the moose he would lose. He would definitely not have any worry from a coyote or anything like that. But he's off leash. And does he love the special little treats that he finds out in the creek? That is disgusting, and it's really hard to stop him just because he goes for it right away. And that's the study. Takes a look at why dogs do the doo doo choo. Ugh. So Gross Safe wrote that before now saying it I kind of wished I didn't. So there's a whole bunch of different theories as to why dogs eat poo. There's obviously some good data that shows that dogs that are malnourished will eat feces because they're still nutrients and fecal matter. You could have it from behaviors that they learn from their parents, especially the mom, because the mom after birth cleans up the baby pops by licking them. You could have dogs that are trapped in kennels and cages and really gross circumstances that IPU because they're bored and maybe they're starving. But there is a subset of dogs that are completely healthy, very well cared for and loved and still eat poop. And that's what the study found. Their 16% of pet dogs eat poop, and this is basically untradeable out of them. like there's the products that have been invented to stop this or training habits have less than a 3% chance of success. So this is fascinating, right? Why? Why is there a percentage of dogs that do this regardless of how much they're loved and fed and trained? And they think it's because it's ingrained in their DNA. This type of eating poop is called copra Fay. Asia and other animals do it. Two wolves, rabbits, other mammals and, of course, dogs will mark their territory with poop. That kind of tells other dogs to stay away. So the researchers had 3000 dog owners complete a survey, and they asked how much the dog's a poop and whether they tried to prevent it. And of the study, 28% of the dogs ate poop at least once, and they found that that 16% that I said, We're dogs that ate it every chance they got and they were super happy to eat it. And here it's gross, right, and there was nothing that stood out. There's nothing that this group of researchers found that would stand out in this group of dogs for genetics or you know lack of nutrients. Nothing. The only thing that stood out was that these dogs didn't eat old poop. Now that's gross when you think about it. But there is an evolutionary reason perhaps the researchers got to. Why would this subsection of dogs eat poop? That was on Lee Fred. That was only freshest, so gross they were meeting like old old dried up poo. Well, when they looked at wolves, wolves in nature would eat poop that was close to the den. That was fresh. And one of the reasons why is that Parasite's growing in dogs. Fecal matter take awhile to become mature, and if they eat it right away than the parasites, don't mature enough that it can get on the dog's paws or the hair and then spread to the rest of the pack so it could be like taking one for the team. By doing that, that could be there could be an evolutionary benefit eating the fresh poop. Now that's just one idea, and it's gonna require way more study, but that it comes from this small subsection of dogs where only fresh poop was eaten. Now they also say it could just be because dogs have very different sense of taste and a very different sense of smell than us, and they could just like eating it gross. So they say, Don't be too disgusted if your dog is eating poop. Obviously limit the poop that they could get into because it is kind of gross, like after they do their number two, pick it up. If other dogs around doing number two, keep your dog on a leash. But there is this subsection of dogs of the poop. Now Bunsen doesn't eat other dog poop. I've said the word poop so much in this podcast. I don't think I'm gonna be talking about poop for a while, but he does eat other wild animal poop, so hopefully that gives you some information that's on the gross seaside. For our canine friends and their disgusting food choices. There could be an evolutionary hold over too many, many years ago where where dogs would take one for the team and gulped down that poop to prevent parasites from spreading in the pack. That's dog signs for this week. Hey, guys, before we get to the interview section, I thought, I tell you, a little bit about how the podcast is made possible. It's made possible with listeners just like you threw our patri on page. The podcast is always gonna be free for you to download and listen to you and have fun with us. But the way that we make the show go and pay for the fees and and everything else that goes with running one is through the donations per month on her patri on page. If you're interested, head over there, too. Patri on dot com Backslash Bunsen burner There's Lincoln, the show notes, and there's four tiers of support. Why else might you want to join the Patri on page, Huh? That's for the cool perks that we've got for you there. Each tear has some really cool perks with the top tiers getting a shout out in the podcast and playtime with Bunsen on our for bow. On top of that will send you some swag from time to time and postcards couple times a year. If you want to support us, we so appreciate it. Okay, thanks back to the show on the signs podcast in the Ask an expert section. I'm super thrilled to have Patricia Corbett on the line talking about the Middle Island Penguin project. How you doing today, Patricia?

spk_1:   16:27
I'm doing really well. Thanks for having me.

spk_0:   16:30
I was just talking to you before we started to record that when folks heard I was gonna be talking to you about your project. You're you are literally the most anticipated guest of everybody in season two. And that might seem like a lot of pressure, but I think your project as we talk about it, it's so wholesome and so uplifting. The world just needs more of that.

spk_1:   16:51
Absolutely. We're very proud of our project, and it's starting to reach old corners of the earth. So I was sorry. Happy about that?

spk_0:   16:59
No, I'm detecting for people that don't know. And it's kind of obvious while people think I have an accent too. You haven't accent. Where are you? In the world?

spk_1:   17:07
I'm from Australia, So, yeah, you conform with that? Even the way I say Australia. It's two friends. So I'm in Victoria. So, John, the bottom off Australia, and I'm actually in a place called Warner Bulls. So most of you have probably heard of the 12 apostles on the Great Ocean Road. So we're right down the end of the Great Ocean Road. I'm in a little town called Winnable.

spk_0:   17:33
Uh, the town's called. What? I'm sorry.

spk_1:   17:35
One humble, the whole If you're helical

spk_0:   17:38
the bull. Yeah, that's like AAA, what with Calgary. Calgary is a really big city close to us. It and people from Calgary called Cow Town. Before we talk about the project, let's let's just talk a little bit about you just so people get kind of a picture. What? You're the director of the project. But I'd imagine you have some background in science, or at least in an organization to direct this project. What's your what's your training and what?

spk_1:   18:10
Yes, I'm actually a marine biologist, so actually moved to woe to do marine biology. And then I got involved, as you know, a volunteer helping out with the Penguin counts on Middle Island, and that really got me interested in the project, and I've gone on to do my doctorate in marine science, but I I I work as the project coordinator, but I also work at Deakin University, so I get Thio educate about all these sorts of things as well as get students involved in the project and educate the public about the project.

spk_0:   18:45
Oh, that's so cool. So you have your trained marine biologist? No. Okay, so not to be stereotypical, but a lot of the marine biologists I talked to they were enamored with marine biology when they were young. Was that was that you as well? Are you stereotypical orders? You zip zap into this from another place,

spk_1:   19:04
Nori, That was definitely May seen. So I was about five years old. I wanted to be a marine biologist. I just didn't know what it was cold yet. So if we live in a passion of mine

spk_0:   19:15
Ah, that's that's so cute with your marine biology. Did you grow up near a coast

spk_1:   19:20
like, you know? So I grew up probably about an hour from the nearest beach, which wasn't a very nice speech. So every time I went to the beach and we always went camping as a family at the beach, So it was always a really special being and, you know, getting to play in rock pools and all of that always really fascinated me, and it was sort of Yeah, I almost like it was in my blood that I had to go and do it.

spk_0:   19:44
I know there's some kids that I teach. I'm a high school science teacher, chemistry teacher. But Alberta is so landlocked geographically in Canada that it's like a 13 hour drive to the to the ocean from us. We gotta drive for all day to get there when, But they're gonna be excited that I get to talk to and marine biologist. I'm taking a group of them to the coast in a month, thio to this marine biology station where they get to go to the ocean. So I know where all the mean me and this other teacher, we're pretty excited to take them just cause it's for some of them. They've never been to the coast were so landlocked that they can live their whole lives without seeing the ocean. Some some of the kids, because you can go east and that's where some families vacation. They never go west to the ocean, so

spk_1:   20:34
yeah, but it blows my mind, I know notion, but yeah, that's such a special thing you're doing for them.

spk_0:   20:42
I I There's a special part of my heart for the ocean I love the ocean. My family and I tried to get there as often as possible, but yeah, that's you know, I guess if the project you're doing is having to do mirth Marine life, that's good. They've got a marine biologist running the show.

spk_1:   20:57
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, It's our most of the paper where you actually work on the project. Ah ah, the studying marine biology. And the third. Yet will they finish the Marine biology to graze? Sir, that's That's the background most of us have come from.

spk_0:   21:10
So let's talk about the Middle Island Penguin Project, I guess for people that have no idea and haven't been keeping up, this is an amazing project. Could you kind of give everybody the Coles notes of what it is?

spk_1:   21:23
Yes, on Middle Island is a really small island about 100 meters off the coast of one of bull, and it's home to a colony of little penguins. Or you might have had them called fairy penguins. They're this small penguin in the world, and so they Unfortunately, over 10 years ago now they started being predated upon by the red fox, now red foxes and introduced species to Australia. They shouldn't be here, so the poor little penguins have no way of protecting them. Sell them? Yeah. So, unfortunately, over summer, where we get some really large hides, the foxes were going over to the island on getting the penguins. So I we went from a population off estimated to be over 800 to counting after a five year period. Just full penguins on Middle Island

spk_0:   22:16
on Lee. Four left

spk_1:   22:18
only full. It was absolutely devastating.

spk_0:   22:22
Okay, so I'm just I'm just so shocked. Where were you studying that island when this was happening? Or like, that would have been just would have been heartbreaking for the biologists that were studying,

spk_1:   22:33
eh? Sorry, I wasn't. So there was a patch day student at a local university taken, and she was actually doing her Patch Day project looking at the penguins. And when she was sort of in the middle of her project, this is when these folks attacks started happening. And it was absolutely devastating for everyone who was involved at the time.

spk_0:   22:55
You know where the foxes came from. Like there's Fox's heir normal it where we live in in Canada, um, where they brought his pets where they brought his pest

spk_1:   23:05
control. Yeah, I said I bought both for pest control of rabbits, but also for hunting. So, um, it was something that was purposely introduced to Australia. Ah. And unfortunately, it's not just the little penguins that they're having an impact on. So foxes. If you don't know much about them, they don't necessarily just kill what they need to survive. They'll kill for fun. Sorry, this mains that one individual folks, whether it's chickens or penguins or whatever it is, can killer over 100 individuals in a knot. So they, as as we saw, had a huge impact on our colony. So something had to be done about it.

spk_0:   23:44
So this is the something that had to be done is gonna blow people's minds when you talk. Can you? Okay, let's I'm not going to spoil it. What did you guys come up with to protect these little adorable penguins?

spk_1:   24:01
Yeah. So it's a fantastic little story, and there is a movie about it called oddballs. They can have a look at that. But what we had was on the walkable City Council. Our local council were trying to stop these fucks attacks they were doing everything they could, but I just weren't having any luck on at the time. There was 30 research student at a local university, and hey was he was studying marine biology. He was working with the penguins. There was a local university student, David Williams, and he was working with the Penguins. But he was also working on a chicken farm on at that chicken farm. They used more Emma's, which are an Italian sheepdog. So Marie Emma's on his incredible guardian. Brave. There's a number of different guardian braids, and so I'm aromas. When they're very young, they establish a bond with their territory and everything that's in it. So whether it's chickens or sheep or whatever is that you want that Merima to protect, then you Actually, when they're very young, bond them with those and anything later in life that comes into that territory they'll say is a threat. Sorry, David and the Chicken Farmer, swampy Alan Mash. They was talking about these horrible penguin kills and swampy. Having used Mama's to protect his chickens for many years, he said, you need a couple of more Emma's at their after all, penguins are just looking in Fancy dinner suits on. That's a crazy idea that started this world first project.

spk_0:   25:36
Oh, my goodness e. It's just It's crazy, I guess. Why not too, right? Yeah, the And that's, you know, that hits home because we have chickens like we live in. We live in a form, and we have chickens. And, um, a batch. A couple years ago, a fox got in, um, killed some chickens, but didn't eat them like you just ate like, their comb. It killed. And that's it. That they took off like it. Like it obviously killed more than it needed to kill and didn't. And

spk_1:   26:09
now that they do

spk_0:   26:11
the same thing with penguins

spk_1:   26:12
and yeah, anything they can really, And some of it is teaching cups. So that's part of the learning for the young pups. They will actually teach them by just killing. But I do do it as something just for fun.

spk_0:   26:28
Wow. Okay, so you take you, you bond the Marama. Did I say that right to Marama?

spk_1:   26:35
Yeah. Different people sigh it to Frank my eyes. That's how I say it. Miranda. Yeah.

spk_0:   26:39
Okay. So you take you take the Marama and you bonded to the chicken or the sheep or the person or whatever, but Okay, how do you How do you do that with penguins?

spk_1:   26:51
Yeah, subject to really interesting. So obviously we can't actually have the pups out with the penguins all the time. From when they're really little, we need to be out to keep an eye on them. And also a little penguins actually burrow So there, one of the only species of penguins that dig there in Bari. So because of that, they're not just sitting out in the open, so it's a little bit different. Well, when we do penguin monitoring so we actually take the penguins out of their burrows and see who's there. And if they've got eggs or cheeks in that sort of thing, Well, actually, bring the pops around to make the penguins, so they start to get tonight. Okay, this is something that we need to be friends with. Oh, it's pretty gone. Gist

spk_0:   27:37
is that not the cutest is that That must be the best day of anybody's life.

spk_1:   27:43
It's rinky is

spk_0:   27:45
you not only do have puppies, but you've got penguins, Publix and Ping. And what do they do they cuddle. Do they play together? Do you? Did you let sniff brother or what?

spk_1:   27:55
Yeah, happens. So they really just sniff them? Um and, you know, we make sure they're being nice and calm around them. So that's what you want for my guardian is to be nice and calm. And, um, it's more that actually have more interaction with chickens. Sorry. Chickens or another training tool that we use. So when they're not on the island, the dogs are added a farm, and they protect chickens there. And chickens are another flightless birds, same as penguins are way. Can have them in with in with the chickens every day. So we actually have them all the time next to the chicken croup. And then we have daily interactions with the chickens so that the perhaps learn that anything that's cute and fluffy, they need to be nice and calm around and protect,

spk_0:   28:44
huh? I'm just smiling from ear to ear is the happiest story I've heard. No, this is so great. I love it. Um, okay. Okay. Where do the puppies come from? Like is there Ah, breeder of these

spk_1:   29:01
dogs around? Er what? You

spk_0:   29:03
have to select the best of the best or

spk_1:   29:06
anything. Yeah, so we have a brain in that way. Use who is, um, sort of also in the state of Victoria where we are, but about seven hours away. She's the first murmur of raider in the country has been doing it over 30 years. And he has about 22 adult dogs that she braids from. So some of our dogs are related and some on, but we've actually got five of their seven dogs from here, and they're just amazing. She'll even import sperm and all fae miles from elsewhere in the world to cape. The bloodlines really pure.

spk_0:   29:40
Did the dogs live on the island then? Or do you take them? Shift worked for the thugs have to clock in like the have to clock in, like the Bugs Bunny party. You know where the sheep dog like clicked? We clicked.

spk_1:   29:55
Yeah, almost. I do. So we do have shift, but their shift home whilst about a week or two at a time before they get swapped out. So we've got three active guardians at the moment, so we've had to retire one just last year. But we still have three working at the moment, so they pretty much tell us when they're ready to leave. So the gate that we leave from after we feed them each day, we, they if they want to leave, they'll try and come out the gate with us. But if they want to stay on Middle Island, they'll hang back. And one of them never wants to leave. We have to force him to leave and have a rifle. Okay. Oh, my

spk_0:   30:38
goodness. And then they just go be somebody's pattern. They work on another farm like is that they have a vacation time? The

spk_1:   30:46
Tardis think Well, they're technically off days, but you can't tell him, er Emma not toe work. It's so instinctive in them that do it anyway. So that's why they have the chickens to protect. They don't really interact with other people apart from there, their handlers and trainers. But they they get to play with each other. So we've also got to ambassador dogs that we just used to educate the public so they get to all have apply at the farm together and that sort of thing. But as I said, Merima is just I have to work. They can't help it. So even when we give them time off, they're still working in a different way.

spk_0:   31:26
Oh, my goodness. Huh? I'm so glad I'm talking to you. This

spk_1:   31:32
is This is the greatest. It was

spk_0:   31:34
absolutely the greatest. Another question is, has this helped? Like, obviously, obviously. Well, I don't know. Like, have you Have you have data that this is helping the little Penguins?

spk_1:   31:44
Yeah, absolutely. So we've growing out population to about 100 at the moment. Yeah, so we're with. While the dogs have been on the islands, there hasn't been a penguin killed. So, um, we, you know, we have showing that yes, it is working. We have had a couple of problems when the dogs haven't been on the island. So it's It's a very difficult situation. It's hard to understand if you know, actually here. But the area in front of the island can be really dangerous. And so there's times in the year where we just can't safely have the dogs on the island. And of course, they've got to be a top priority if we can't get over and we can't feed them and look after them then we can't have them on the island. And the foxes are becoming a really big problem. So we've actually had, um you know, we're getting more and more foxes that are becoming really bold, and they're they're taking risks that they wouldn't usually take. So we have a couple of times had Fox's swim over to Middle Island when it wasn't even stay for us to get there. So in those instances when we haven't had but haven't been able to have our dogs on the island, we have, unfortunately lost a few penguins. But thankfully, um, you know where the population is building and we're feeling really positive about where we're at. And there's also being more on land Fox control. That's being done Thio to make sure that that can't happen.

spk_0:   33:18
The foxes swim to the island.

spk_1:   33:21
Yeah, we didn't think it was possible. S so, uh, you know, it's a very dangerous there, that actually the far Yes. So keeping up against 17 is when we had folks get over there and the following year we actually had a fox wash up drowned in that area. So whether it was the same one or a different one it someone had tried again. So they're getting more and more bold, and they just there's so many off them that they must need the food to be out of tape. That sort of risk.

spk_0:   33:52
Yeah. Okay, so just the presence of the dogs alone have kept the fox. Or do you think I imagine you're like you're a fox. You take this huge risk, you swim across the freaking see the ocean, you come up all drenched in gross. And there's one of these giant dogs there, and you're like, Well, all that sucks.

spk_1:   34:13
Yeah, Where you have me just their scent on the island is enough to keep the foxes away. Okay, Yeah. Sorry. If if the dogs aunt on the island can't be on the island particularly if it's, you know, a week or more at a time, that's when we might have to be concerned. So that's why thankfully, there's, you know, any good Fox management strategy needs to have multiple lines of defense, and the more Emma's really should be the last line.

spk_0:   34:42
So one of the things that's really cool people can take a tour. Is it starting to become? Can you talk about that. That that's like that's like eco tourism right there, right?

spk_1:   34:53
Absolutely. And we love that. You know, we could do these acre tourism. It's sort of It's a meet the Merima experience, so we don't actually go to Middle Island anymore. So we we obviously have a recovering penguin population, and we also have the Marie Emma's there that we don't want people to interact with too much. So we need educate the island safe for the penguins and the more Emma's. But we actually run these talk for surprise where you you learn all about the little penguins, which, after all, is why the dogs are there. So we learn about penguins and we get to it. We have a little pretend nest box where we get to monitor the penguins. Exactly how we would over on Middle Island on. Then. We take people across to the Bates, which is just in front of Middle Island. We talk about the project and we actually bring one of our ambassador dogs down for you to mate and have a photo we had. So you get Thio experience the story and then make one of our beautiful dogs

spk_0:   35:50
Oh, That's adorable. That's so good. Do some of you, Is it? Ah, Is it just the marine biology people that run this or do you have, like, it's its own position. Kind of like a like we have them in Canada and our our national parks, the higher, like students to do these like a little show and tell shows which are really educational.

spk_1:   36:11
Yeah, so it's sort of like that. Sorry, I I do that run the tours as well. So everyone who works for something called the Middle Island Project Working Group we all do to us. Most of the people are students, and it's just ah, you know, it's a ll these people who work on the project to have all the knowledge and can answer all of your questions about it.

spk_0:   36:35
One of the things we ask our guests also, and this is gonna be kind of interesting as we ask them for a pet story. Um, from their own life. And I was wondering if you have one from your own life, you could share with us. Patricia.

spk_1:   36:48
No, Sorry, I actually a za kid. I didn't have a dog. I'd always wanted a dog but I didn't have one and so actually worked in a boarding kennel. So I got my job fix that way. But then when I moved out of Hori, um, and moved, actually, he it's his study marine biology. I thought, Oh, I have to buy dope and I actually got a Tibetan spaniel Now. Most people don't know what they are. They're quite small dogs, and they're related to pugs and Pekinese. And so I've had her for 14 years now. But every time she gets wet, whether it's you, she's gone to the beach or she's had a bath or she's run out in the rain. She just gets seems to get energized by the water. And that's something, as you know, look, Doug's and I just love that that it's like they can be really sort of dark, silent. And when they get what it is running around doing zem easel around the place. And yes, I just want it really interesting.

spk_0:   37:47
That's cute. What type of the type of dog breed did you say that was

spk_1:   37:51
Tibet in spaniel? Oh, okay. You really small dogs? Yes, about the size of a pug. And they have a push Didn't knows a beat like a pug, but not quite to the same extent. Then they have ah long for but it doesn't keep growing, so you don't need to groom them. And that was that was the thing that, um, sold her for May. I actually did a grooming course and figured out that I don't want to be a groomer. I don't That doesn't really need to be groomed.

spk_0:   38:21
Yeah, we have Thio. We have to groom Bunsen twice. Ah, twice a week because he's so fuzzy. Yeah, it's like mats behind his ear and stuff like that. And then when our season when our seasons change, it's it's shed Magainin. It's just

spk_1:   38:34
the first. Yes, that's one of them. Room is alike at the more image.

spk_0:   38:39
Oh, yeah, I guess there are still there. Big fuzzy guys. Yeah. How much does Amiram away? Like, What's what's the average weight of, like, a meal and then a female?

spk_1:   38:48
Yeah, Sorry. Well, of our families about 42 killers and miles, about 50 killers, but they can get up over 60 killers.

spk_0:   39:00
Yeah, so they're No, they're not small dogs at

spk_1:   39:02
all. No, they're not small dogs. A lot of people say that they look like golden or trade this on. They sort of doing away. But they're much bigger and they have a very different temperament.

spk_0:   39:13
They remind me when I when I look at them, I've never seen a Marama in my life. You kind of remind me of a pier in ease, um, Guardian

spk_1:   39:23
breathing that way absolutely on. Honestly, if swamping had have had pure, amazed mountain dogs on his farm instead of more Emma's, that's what would be guarding Middle Island. They pretty much interchangeable. They are both that those guardian breeze that it's the instinct to protect.

spk_0:   39:41
That's awesome. Um, what's the name of your what's name of your dog,

spk_1:   39:47
Missy

spk_0:   39:48
Missy. Aw, the name for a little dog.

spk_1:   39:51
Yeah, he's a little miss

spk_0:   39:52
is one of the things we also ask our guests is for a super fact. Yes, perfect to something that you know that when you tell people it kind of blows their mind. Do you have ah, super fact for us? You could

spk_1:   40:05
share. I do. It's actually a stoop effect about penguins. So we always thought everyone always thought we hear all the time that penguins mate for life. Well, we actually implant out penguins with a microchip. Same Azad dogs, and that way we can track who's who. And since we've done that, we've actually found out that now Penguin Colony has about a 25% divorce rate.

spk_0:   40:32
Oh, no, not as bad as it is about as humans. But we were saying we thought,

spk_1:   40:37
I can't say And usually that's going to happen for things like, if the Penguins don't have a successful mating attempt when they first get together, well, then they're probably going to try and find another partner because it doesn't really make sense. Evolutionary wise. If we have penguins mating who are just not successful in that at him, so it could be that sort of being, or if they do lose a partner, they will rape Hunnam.

spk_0:   41:03
So it's not quite as romantic as we

spk_1:   41:06
wait. More biological u Z a.

spk_0:   41:13
Well, thanks. That's a great super factor. Do you see this type of program expanding like it's such a no brainer? No, Like it just It just blows my mind that it could be something that could expand you. Do you see

spk_1:   41:28
that? Yeah, absolutely. And it's sort of already has. Sorry. David Williams, who was talking about earlier, who worked on the Chicken farm Hey, actually really is the one who started the project. He trains the dogs, and so since then he's left the Middle Island project on. He's worked on a couple of other projects where he's used more. Emma's too pretty. Protect other animals. So one was in a town near war novel, about an hour from winnable neck called Portland, where they actually used more Emma's to protect another type of seabird that's called again it on. This was very successful, but it didn't have the public support that we have for the Middle Island project, so it didn't really work out longer term. But now he's working for zoos. Victoria sorry, this is out by a local serious that we have and me is using more Emma's to reintroduce an endangered marsupial called the Eastern Bond Bandy crew back into the wild. Sorry, the more Emma's actually going out into the wild, protecting these band EQ roots. So it's it's the same sort of idea. Is the Middle Island projects, but banquet using a different animal? Yeah,

spk_0:   42:43
well, there you go. Yeah, so So you could have an army of Bunsen is protecting something in Canada, potentially if you train them right?

spk_1:   42:52
Potentially? Yes, sir. Obviously the guardian braids of the ones that you know. It's instinctive in them to protect. Sorry. And

spk_0:   43:00
that's true. Munson's not really a very and breathe. You need a Yeah, he's, uh, he's a working breed slash coach potatoes.

spk_1:   43:07
Yeah, yeah, and I mean some some Marie Mazar like that. So, as I said earlier, there was, There's a movie about this whole project that's called oddball and what Paul was the very first dog on the island. So the story is all about getting on bull on the island and in the movie on pulls a boy. But in real life she was a girl, and she was one of those dogs that was very much bonded to people. She wasn't bonded so much to chickens or penguins. She was bonded to people, so she actually instead of wanting to bay on the island, she wanted to be with people. So she kept escaping the island to play with people and actually reading the whole way home. Just want sorry, she while she is the very first. And she has this international stardom. She actually only did four weeks work, and then she retired to Swampy is firm. So she is a bit more of that, You know, she's bonded to people. She showed the project will work, and she started this whole project off, but she actually is more of a people dogs than an animal dog.

spk_0:   44:18
I was gonna I was gonna say I'm e I'll have to check out this movie for sure thing. This whole story, like, literally Disney. Pixar, if you're listening, this is like the next big Disney Pixar movie. Like where you have dogs interacting with wildlife from protecting them from like Fox is, um, it would be the girl. It would be such a good movie. Using you would just need toe work in some famous voice actors for the different Paramus, right?

spk_1:   44:48
Yeah. Yeah, that would be fantastic.

spk_0:   44:52
Like, uh is Chris. Chris comes feel there's he's Australian is Annie Or see New Zealand guy

spk_1:   44:59
Chris Hemsworth? Yeah, he's a nosy Hemsworth. Yeah,

spk_0:   45:02
Chris Hemsworth. This. Yeah. So you could like he's kind of a big guy. He could be one of the

spk_1:   45:06
dogs for sure. Yeah, that sounds really good. And this time I think that the movie should be about our true here is whose names a UTI and Chula. So there is to the scientific name of the Little Penguin is you do chul of minor. So those two got named after a year of Chula UT and chiller on name Truer. Yeah, and those two have been protecting the island for eight years. Incredible.

spk_0:   45:32
How long hurry?

spk_1:   45:33
Eight years.

spk_0:   45:35
Oh, my goodness. Now, in which the life, what's the life span of one of those dogs? Like they're

spk_1:   45:40
Yeah, they're working. Life is usually about 10 years. And so Chula and UT, they're both sisters from the same litter. So they just turned 11 on the night of January, and Chula has retired to the farm. But you d still going on the island, so you she's a living gold and doesn't want to stop working.

spk_0:   46:03
Uh, those what? Good dogs.

spk_1:   46:05
Yeah, well, they are just amazing. Yeah,

spk_0:   46:09
and I know with your job, you probably have other stuff on your plate. Like you said you'd you teach at the university. We work at the university. Um, is this is this like an area of positivity, and you're like it must be just It must just feel you, you and your team with such joy to be a part of this every day, like

spk_1:   46:28
I'm saluting. So I mean, when we're in it, we're giving the tours and everything. People are always thanking us for our work. And we're always saying, We just love it like, you know, we're so lucky to be a part of this project and also where some of the few people who actually get to gari two Middle Island and it just feels sorry special being able to be there every single time you go. Even though we've been over hundreds and hundreds of times, it just feels special every time and the dogs just melt your heart. They're beautiful.

spk_0:   47:01
That is, that is that That's so great. You know what? That's probably that's probably a good place to kind of wrap up the interview. Just I think people were listening. When they when they hear this, they're also gonna be so thankful for your team's work. And the and the dog trainers that air that train them like to be on the island. It's such a genius idea to get dogs who are the best. The best of us really like. They're just still the most pure part of humanity to do this conservation for us. It's so good.

spk_1:   47:34
Absolutely yeah, that we should be using dogs more say, In conservation, we have the guardian braids like the more Emma's, and then we also have detection dogs. So there's lots of detection dogs that are going out there and either finding pissed slack foxes all finding endangered species or things like koalas and that sort of thing that actually trainings to detect through. So there's There's a huge demand for conservation dogs, which is just fantastic, and there's more and more things happening in that space.

spk_0:   48:08
100% agree, I think research. The research comes out with what dogs are capable of, um, for my side of things. It's with, like dogs and their effect on people who

spk_1:   48:19
were learning and straight stress for lately,

spk_0:   48:23
like I think the evidence every time they do some kind of meta analysis thing. I'm not in research myself, but like when I read them, it's like super conclusive that there's a positive correlation between for sure dogs and sometimes cats in some other fuzzy guys and and just your stress hormones. And and you're positive your mood and things like that. Yeah, they're brighten her mood and they're saving the penguins.

spk_1:   48:48
Yeah, that's right.

spk_0:   48:52
Where can people find the Middle Island Penguin project on social media? Like, where? Can people find more about this?

spk_1:   48:58
Yeah, absolutely. We have a Facebook page, which is the Middle Island Merima Penguin Project. Just look up Middle Island Project and you'll find it. Um, we also are on Twitter and Instagram at W Bull. So W b double o r l penguins. And if you want to have a look at our website, we've also got a website that is wonderful. Penguins dot coms are a you on on their if you're not able to get to Australia. But you want to do something that's supporting this project, there is a dark night. Now button would be ours. So appreciative if you could help us in any way. And people love to see you in Australia.

spk_0:   49:39
Um, and just so people know Yeah, uh, I I forget which dog it was, but you were raided by were eight dogs.

spk_1:   49:47
Ah, yes, yes, We were liberated by way. Right dogs for Chula Chula. Chula? Yeah, A chill has vein the laid guardian for eight years. And so the poor thing. She's got a bit of arthritis. She's a bit stiff and sore. There's actually about six flights of stairs to get to the top of Middle Island, so she just isn't able to do that anymore. So she was righted when she retired by way. Right? Dogs? A 58 out of 10. Say

spk_0:   50:14
that's the highest ranking that dog when we read dogs. Congee get

spk_1:   50:17
Yes, yes! Oh, wear all everyone that the whole country and even even people around the world. It's very proud of Tuller and the work that she's done, and we're sorry. Think

spk_0:   50:28
that's amazing? Bronson's got to step up his game when he was really got 12 of the 13. So our ways to go?

spk_1:   50:34
No. Well, what can he retire from? I don't think you'll retire from the couch, so, uh,

spk_0:   50:40
no, no, no. He's He's already on the coach. I don't think it's gonna go back. Uh, well, you know what? Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us, Patricia.

spk_1:   50:52
No, having it.

spk_0:   50:54
This just gob smacking Lee adorable, wholesome and important project. Um, we'll make sure we get the word out through Munson's account. And, ah, just so out of Australia. And people on Twitter can know more about this because, as I tell people, they just can't believe it. And they want to know more information. So,

spk_1:   51:13
yeah, I mistake.

spk_0:   51:15
Yeah, I really I really hope that it grows. And I hope you get as much support as possible to keep it running.

spk_1:   51:22
Thank you so much. And thank you so much for talking to us and helping Dennis get our story out there.

spk_0:   51:28
Yeah, it's totally been my pleasure. Today I am. I can tackle the world now after listening to Tokyo and hearing the in hearing the excitement and passion in your voice and just the just what a happy project is just the greatest.

spk_1:   51:41
It absolutely is. And it's the reason I'm staying in winnable.

spk_0:   51:44
Well, no. We'll send people your way through the through social media and have yourself. You have yourself a great after new. I think it's a

spk_1:   51:53
good analyst, Really. Almost all my stuff. Yeah, thank you very much. And yet Theo Um, yeah. We'll definitely get that at three. Out of social media as well. So you Thank you so much for that.

spk_0:   52:07
Perfect. Okay, take care.

spk_1:   52:09
Thanks to you, T.

spk_0:   52:10
Hey, everybody. I just want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor genius Lab gear Genius Lab gear is giving everybody 10% off everything at their store. If you use the code Bunsen 10 that's B U and S e n 10 genius lab here has a ton of cool stuff. We love that. They sent Montana bandanna That says PhD emotional support dog. And so cute. Also, they have these little wallet size stencils for doing organic molecules. And if you're not a science test or a science teacher, there's gear at the site that you would like a cz well, including sciences for everyone. Stickers and a whole bunch of other stuff checked them out. That's at genius lab gear dot com. Okay, it's time for Wu or Wow and in more. While I read three statements, two of them are fake. One of them is true, and I've got another guest host. This week. It's Sylvia Bells. Eel. How you doing? How's everybody good Sylvie teaches at Lindsay Thurber with me, and you teach kind of an interesting area. Science. What is it? I teach all sciences in French. So I do the whole high school signs, general signs to biology and chemistry in French. Sylvia is one of the toughest jobs in the school because she has to teach everything. She's not just given all. You could just teach chemistry. You have to teach lots of different stuff. All the general science and all of the advanced science. Yeah, but I'm surrounded by great teachers and they're willing to help when they can. No, Sylvie, are you Are you from Quebec? No, I'm from New Brunswick right now. This is an interesting thing. Most people who don't live in Canada think that everybody, the French speaking, comes on Lee from Quebec. There is about 1/3 of the population that is actually Francophone. But out of these Francophone lots of people, no English. And there's also English speaking native from your Brunswick debt. No French. So it's the on Lee bilingual province in Canada. Very cool. See, I did not know that until I started teaching with you. So there you go. Hey, That's awesome. So are you ready for war? Wow. All right. Okay. All right. So the category this week is penguins. Because I talked to Dr Patricia Corbett, who runs the Middle Island Penguin Project in Australia. So all our fax air about penguins. Okay, The first fact penguins cannot drink seawater. They must surface and find fresh water in order to stay alive. Hey, what you think about that one? You want to hear some more? One more. Yes, please. State but statement Number two penguins jump as high as they can before entering the water so they can swim faster. All right, What's the 3rd 1? And the 3rd 1 recently, extinct penguins were found and their bones scalito structure was 10 feet tall. So I'm 63 feet tall. Okay, So, Sylvie, two of these air fake and one of these is the true statement. You want me to recap? Yes. Just quickly. Okay. Statement one. Penguins cannot drink seawater. They must surface to find fresh water or drink lots of water before they go to the ocean. Statement to penguins. Jump as high as they can before entering the water to swim faster and statement. Three extinct penguins grew as tall as 10 feet. Is there one that you're leaning towards? That's false. Out of that. That 2nd 1 what was the 2nd 1 about? Jump the jumping one while the 10 feet one seems like very tall for penguins. Knowing that DEA, Antarctica penguins Thea Emperor penguins are quite tall. They're probably my size. So but where were the extinct penguins before Australia? Oh, no. They only have little penguins, I think over there. But I could be wrong. That's really fake. Okay, so you're leaning. The third statement is fake. Yes. Okay, now that we're down to 21 then were you gotta pick one. That's true of the last 21 is the penguins not being able to drink seawater? And the other one is penguins jumping high to swim faster. Well, that would give them more velocity if they jump high. Who displacement overtime. Yeah, in the same time, we also always see some movies with penguins just sliding on their bellying, having lots of fun, and they're not jumping before they're entering water. And the 1st 1 was about fresh water. But if you're around Australia, it's all ocean. So It's salt water. No freshwater. I know they can come back to the mainland land. Oh, that's really good. One fresh water filtration us most is penguins. I will say that all that stuff it's okay. They're all they're made to be tough. I know. I want to get it right, because I'm competitive. Yes, I know. I never thought about fish and dolphins living in the ocean, but they're obviously drinking water, which contains salt. But they could also get their water from there, sort source of food, which could have a way to get rid of that salt. So I don't have a strategy here. I think the fun one of jumping in the water might be fake. True, because it's gonna fund Imagine penguins in my head right now. The the kind of penguin dive. You know, when you're around a pool and people just being one dive jump

spk_1:   57:39
a little bit,

spk_0:   57:40
but they don't miss Lee jump as high as they can. I mean, they're not frogs, so I'm going to say that one's falls. Okay, so you're leaning towards the 1st 1 Penguins cannot drink seawater. Yeah, that's the true which which seems odd, but Where are they getting their water? But if they live on an island, maybe there's a little river of fresh water. But if it's Australia, it's warmer. There's K final answer. Which ones? That which one's the true statement? Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with the 1st 1 being true. The 1st 1 being true. Yes. The penguins cannot drink seawater. Yes. Okay. Final answer. Number one Statement. Penguins can't drink seawater. They have to drink before. Okay, Water. You have to drink fresh water. Okay, so let's take a look at the third statement. That was the penguins being 10 feet tall in ancient times. That statement is That's wuss. You're right. That's a false statement. Okay. The extinct penguins that they found grew as tall as five feet, so they were quite big, actually. Six feet, almost six feet tall. That was 60 million years ago. So that's a huge penguin. Think of a penguin almost as tall as me. That's crazy. Yep. And emperor penguins are pretty big though they are now, we're down to two statements. The statement that you thought was true penguins cannot drink salt water is in fact, a woo. It's actually Oh, sorry. So Heng Gwynn's can drink seawater. They have special glands underneath their eye sockets which filter seawater and extract the salt. And then the salt is excreted through their nose, if you can believe it. All right. I did not know that before we did this together. It makes sense that they have, ah, organs that can filter it. That that that salt water, Right? It's weird, though, because birds you think birds air. You know, most birds drink fresh water. Yes. Yeah. So penguins do jump as high as they can before the entering the water. And that's the sheikh. Air bubbles off their feathers so they may not know about the physics, but it cuts down on drag Ziff, they dive in and they've got a bunch of air bubbles on their feathers. It actually slows them down and physicists and behave like penguin. Behavioral scientists did simulations, and if they didn't do that, they would be three times slower with all of these air bubbles trapped on their feathers. So they do watch themselves in the air before they go in the water. Interesting. And you might see them do a little flipper. The flap of their little little arms before they go in there. Yeah, that's why shakes off there. Well, now I want to be a penguin, and I want to jump as high as possible and shake before I jump in the water and we're talking. What's that? What's the French word for Penguin? Tanguay? Penguin and Emperor Penguin. Is the Li martial motion? Okay? Thank you so much, Sylvie. You're welcome. Okay, I know. I'm sorry. And that's the end of the podcast this week. Sorry. No, uh, no family section this week. Really? Really. Nothing has happened for Chris and Adam. They've been trapped at home during this whole quarantine. So really, the only thing that everybody's been enjoying is just spending every day with Bunsen at home. I have been going into work, so I haven't been able to enjoy that. So we're kind of late on the Bunsen stories besides just how much we love him. Okay. Our top tier patrons get a showed out at the end of the podcast. They are Andrea Persons, Bianca Hide, Brooke Lavalle Oh, Daniel Frye, Elizabeth Bourgeois, Judith Martin, Karen Beth ST George, Katherine Lynch, Cathleen Zucker. Mary cu ce Marianne McNally, Ben Rather, Liz Button and Rebecca Rutherford. Thanks, patrons. We couldn't do what we do without your support. Also special. Thanks so much. Dr. Patricia Corbett took time to talk to us about the Middle Island Penguin Project. It's so adorable will have some links to it in the show notes. Okay, stay safe out there, everybody. And let's end with Munson's motto for science, empathy and cute nous.